do you still bench press?

[Oblivian]

The link says the upper back needs to be strong. Wendler covers it further herehttps://www.elitefts.com/education/upper-back-for-the-bench/
"I was a little taken aback. Isn’t the bench all pecs, shoulders, and triceps?
From all the years of deadlifting and doing Olympic movements, I had accumulated an impressive set of traps. I thought that this is all I needed to do to build the upper back for pressing. I eventually found out that this is not the case."

I had always thought that the assistance work was an afterthought. Wendler seems to also

"2. Take it easy with the assistance work.
Some people look for the magic combination of assistance exercises, and completely under-rate the key lift. I call that majoring in the minors. Assistance work is just that – assistance. Do one or two exercises for five sets of 10, or maybe do a few more exercises for fewer sets. It's assistance. It doesn't fucking matter"

Like I said above, I did get stronger but I feel much more solid on gymnastics programming. Ymmv

You are misinterpreting a lot of things. This was the original quote that you used:

It actually makes me laugh that most lifting programs treat the entire back muscles as "assistance work". How can anybody call themselves strong if they have a weak back?

You then posted this to support it:

Wendler is very popular around bjj forums and he specifically refers to his upper back stuff as assistance work- https://www.allthingsgym.com/jim-wendler-on-assistance-lifts/
I thought that this was a legit strength program, I've used it before and gotten much stronger.

As mentioned and shown in the link, the back is a major component of deadlift and squat. I realize some people don't think of using the back much in bench, but it's definitely a component as well. Furthermore, anything outside of squat, bench, and deadlift can be considered "assistance" for a powerlifter. They are specifically trying to increase their big 3 total. No one is going to be strong in the big 3 with a weak back, so whoever had that quote clearly doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

[rmongler]

"Unlike those boorish dumb unintelligent gym-brehs, i prefer bodyweight exercises, rather than moving around heavy objects, as befitting a thoughtful and intelligent person such as myself."

The avoidance so many people have to scientifically proven and optimal methods of resistance training is literally just monkey status signaling hipsterlallia.

 

[mataleaos]

I think pushing is important for upper body but not so much for grappling. As others have said pulling (back strength) is a more natural human movement for strength and especially grappling. My PT wants me to bench, do pushups, and open my chest more. My posture sort of curls in because my back is so much stronger than my chest. My chest is very tight and is starting to hurt my back and neck because the tight pec muscles are crunching my posture down some.

We see a lot of guys hypertrophy or "bodybuilder" training. Gordon Ryan and Felipe Pena both seem to from videos they've posted.
They say hypertrophy training protects your joints better.

Many power lifters seem to use hypertrophy cycles to add some size and give their joints some recovery.

I think strength has diminishing returns after you get to a certain point.

I'd personally rather move better and try to stay injury free than set lifting PR's, we all have different goals though.

This is my take. I also roll a lot and I can never eat enough to get a lot of good hypertrophy going. I can get to about 185 lbs and then it gets almost impossible for me to add mass after that unless I cut rolling down to just 1-2x per week. I wish I could. I'd love to be 185 and roll as much as I do bit even when I list 3-4x per week and eat good I think 180 is about the biggest I can get. If I don't lift at al and just roll, eat good, and sleep well, my body always wants to stay around 175.

 

[dmwalking]

Strength is always helpful. So yes, I still bench. In jiu jitsu benching is good for when you have to stiff arm someone or for shrimping. It's not essential, but all strength training is good for jiu jitsu.

 

[chosey whales]

Sport??? Hahaha
Hey bra watch what I can lift.
Hey bro it’s a sport it’s harder then tennis
Also is football too sports because they train and exercise
Ha jokes on me ,wrong thread

 

[CFGroup]

I train a gymnastics style program.

Boom!

Got asked to join the HS gymnastics team as my winter sport. I declined cause I was a tough guy FB jock and regretted it the rest of my athletic life. Now 25 years later I've been trying all this time in supplemental training to replicate the physical dexterity and flexibility I would have learned in my teens.

Plus it would have been cool learning all the flipping shit.

 

[Kenneth Andrews]

Yes. So long as you are lifting with your goals in mind.

Of all the compound lifts for fighters I'd say the bench is the least important. That doesn't mean you should skip it. Aim for strength training and power. Though some endurance lifting won't hurt. It comes in handy when you need to stiff arm. There are tons of positions where pushing strength is important.

I'd say the bench is a little less Important for strikers. Since you may be building power in your arms, but punching power doesn't come from arms.. So with the added mass I would say it's debatable.
-------
Edit

Lifting won't make you stiff unless you are purposefully training to get massive muscles. Training for functional strength will allow you to get much stronger and thus more powerful in your sport which will more than offset any beginner mass gains you get.

Functional strength also prevents injuries by allowing you to support your skeletal structure. A strong athlete is less likely to tear a muscle or torque a knee.

P. S ever try to put a very strong guy in a Kimura only to have them fight your superior leverage with pure arm strength? Ever had trouble breaking someone's posture when they stiff arm with those telephone poles they have attached to their shoulders? Skill beats strength. But skill and strength beats skill alone.

Since I've started lifting my back no longer hurts after training. My top game has improved drastically. So if my anecdotal experience is worth anything (it's not). It implies lifting has value. Just follow a scientific routine and lift to be a better grappler not a better lifter.

 

[Matsukaze]

Lifting / strength training is very important depending on what your goals are. I strength train just to keep the armor strong and help prevent injuries but its based on how I feel throughout the week... all if not most of the top bjj competitors lift, strength train of some sort .

 

[KnightTemplar]

I haven't benched in well over three years. I injured my left shoulder towards the end of '15. This was my own fault; I was dealing with the loss of a family member by taking my aggression out on the weights. I was benching too heavy, with bad form, and the inevitable happened.

Since I started training BJJ about six months ago, my main upper body pressing has been Floor Press with the Swiss Bar and Dumbbell Hex Press. The program I follow was written for me, specifically to compliment my BJJ training. It is heavily focused on strengthening and developing the legs, hips and back, with more emphasis on pulling than pushing movements.

 

[Thaijitsu612]

I train a gymnastics style program. Not only does it make me stronger but it helps me move better. I'm using it to supplement my BJJ, not as a priority.

I guess it depends on what your goals are, mine aren't to bench more. I don't care at all about that.

"You need to be "bulletproof from all angles" to even be remotely successful at moderate levels of gymnastics.

When you compare that with a Powerlifter, who's only upper-body strength feat is being good at the bench press, and probably nothing much else.

It actually makes me laugh that most lifting programs treat the entire back muscles as "assistance work". How can anybody call themselves strong if they have a weak back?"

Why would any powerlifter have a weak back???? Thats one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

As you said, a lot of assistance work targets the back specifically. Maybe you don't understand what assistance work is.

Not only is it completely wrong to say training the back is limited to assistance work, but it seems your implying assistance work isnt serious intensive training.

 

[Thaijitsu612]

Look at the link. Every main lift on there involves the back. That quote you used is way off in assuming back work is just assistance. It's a component of all lifts, and you are still doing assistance work on top of that.

The main problem in "just assistance" is the JUST part. It seems the assumption is that assistance work is not intense, important, and effective training. This is not the case. A lot of lifters spend more time doing assistance work than the main lifts. It is not just an after thought or any less important.

 

[chris75025]

I still bench, but do incline now instead of flat.

The incline bench works a ton of muscles you need for grappling . . . the triceps, anterior deltoids, and your back.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

As a former college wrestler, we used to bench more or less to supplement our strength training, but not on the same level that football players did. As other posters have said, the pulling movements seem to be the more relevant lifts -- rows, cleans, deadlifts, etc; more so for muscular conditioning as opposed to maxing out, if that makes sense.

 

[nefti]

Grapplers shoudl follow high lvl grapplers such as olympic wrestling/judo training where research and money is spent.
However, as you get older you should look exercises with less impact on your body. Steve maxwell is someone you should look into.

What we should not do is training designed to:
Put on a pair of little panties, pun oil on body, and let a much of guys decide how attractive you are.

We put on larger underpants, maybe grease up a little, and roll on the ground with other men.

 

[BIGthingsSON]

Nah, I find that doing body weight things like animal movements are just better for BJJ. I feel movement based exercise is where it's at. For lifting, just big lifts ... Squats, Deadlifts, bench (dumbbells only).

 

[NSchoke]

The main problem in "just assistance" is the JUST part. It seems the assumption is that assistance work is not intense, important, and effective training. This is not the case. A lot of lifters spend more time doing assistance work than the main lifts. It is not just an after thought or any less important.

Here's Jim Wendler's thoughts on the subject.
"Some people look for the magic combination of assistance exercises, and completely under-rate the key lift. I call that majoring in the minors. Assistance work is just that – assistance. Do one or two exercises for five sets of 10, or maybe do a few more exercises for fewer sets. It's assistance. It doesn't fucking matter"

 

[Thaijitsu612]

Here's Jim Wendler's thoughts on the subject.
"Some people look for the magic combination of assistance exercises, and completely under-rate the key lift. I call that majoring in the minors. Assistance work is just that – assistance. Do one or two exercises for five sets of 10, or maybe do a few more exercises for fewer sets. It's assistance. It doesn't fucking matter"

Obviously the key lifts are more important that assistance work. But no successful lifter ever made it to the top without assistance work, Including jim. You're dreaming if you think wendler doesn't row very heavily. That said, he's referring to beginners. Beginner need much less assistance work than advanced lifters. However, this is one of the many reasons 5/3/1 has come under fire from so many other lifters and coaches. He himself has even said the program is lacking.

Beyond that, your original statement that power lifters have weak backs would be wrong even in windlers programs. Squats and deadlift tax the back muscles immensely.

Lastly, here's wonder talking about assistance lifts:

I realize that some of this stuff will be second nature to many of you, but many of us take assistance work for granted. Its this assistance work that can and will make a huge difference in training. Even if you don'tt use a three week wave or do something vastly different, make sure to keep track of the assistance work that you feel is most important. Make an effort to improve on these lifts, and I guarantee that you will get stronger.

 

[Stujitsu1]

I do one armed pushups. I do kettlebell.

 

[thugpoet]

Have any of you ever rolled with powerlifter?

Strength matters, power lifting gives you a means to get that strength without learning complex movements like gymnastics.

Size out of camp, strength in beginning of camp, endurance at the end of camp. Rense repeat.

Why size ? Imagine a car. You have a v6 you fix it up as much as you can but it's still a v6. Take that same 6 ( current size)out and put a 12 (new size) in there and then fix that one up ( strength and endurance work) not an exact analogy but it gets the point across.

You need progressive overload to accomplish this. Weights are the beat for this.

 

[mataleaos]

Absolutely. Grappling and bouldering are my main hobbies. Both activities build a lot of back and pulling strength but not a lot of chest and pushing strength. If I don't do push ups and bench press then I start to feel all hunched over with bad posture and just imbalanced overall.