Dry fasting

[Robocok]

What do you all think of this? Anyone tried a dry fast? I didn't realize a hard dry fast was a thing

https://www.santosaphuket.com/fasting-water-vs-dry/

 

[Badger67]

Evidence:
This is the type of fast that was practiced by Moses for 40 days, Ezra, the Nation of Israel, the Apostle Paul and Jesus Christ. The Orthodox Church’s absolute fast begins Saturday night and ends Sunday morning. In Chinese history are examples of men (masters) living from the pure energy of Chi, and not from the energy of food or water.

LOL .....

 

[Robocok]

Evidence:
This is the type of fast that was practiced by Moses for 40 days, Ezra, the Nation of Israel, the Apostle Paul and Jesus Christ. The Orthodox Church’s absolute fast begins Saturday night and ends Sunday morning. In Chinese history are examples of men (masters) living from the pure energy of Chi, and not from the energy of food or water.

LOL .....

This part is obviously bunk but there are some other articles on it. Is the whole idea of abstaining from water for any length of time ridiculous then?

 

[Badger67]

This part is obviously bunk but there are some other articles on it. Is the whole idea of abstaining from water for any length of time ridiculous then?

Your body requires water not only for basic hydration sustenance, but for a number of processes: breaking down nutrients, synthesizing, lubrication of joints, integrating minerals etc.

Although basic fasting/IF can have some positive benefits, avoiding water is stupid, especially for days as advertised by a vegan site.

 

[Robocok]

Your body requires water not only for basic hydration sustenance, but for a number of processes: breaking down nutrients, synthesizing, lubrication of joints, integrating minerals etc.

Although basic fasting/IF can have some positive benefits, avoiding water is stupid, especially for days as advertised by a vegan site.

That site is not a good one. I threw it up here and should have read it a little more before linking it.

This guy's blog explains the origin and thinking behind dry fasting in more detail and references a few studies which are focused on Ramadan. The idea is similar to regular fasting in that you're creating a more stressful environment in your body to promote culling weaker cells and boost fat loss (where the body supposedly extracts more water from within itself).

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/guide-to-dry-fasting/

If you're not eating during the fast, is it really necessary in the short term to have water to break down nutrients when none are being ingested? From my understanding of the dry fast, it's not supposed to be done under extreme conditions or physical duress. It seems doubtful that you're going to incur significant damage to your joints from a short period of abstinence. Wouldn't the main area of concern be damage to your organs, not joints?

Not arguing for or against this but want to cover all sides of the issue before settling on it being bunk.

Anecdotal loosely related story: when I was 18 I lived with a retired pro cyclist and his wife for 2 weeks who actually laughed at me for taking too much water on a 2 hour training ride claiming that he'd finished a 240km mountain stage in the tour de France with only 1 bottle in a year where he placed 5th overall. Not the same thing as dry fasting but still interesting.

 

[Badger67]

That site is not a good one. I threw it up here and should have read it a little more before linking it.

This guy's blog explains the origin and thinking behind dry fasting in more detail and references a few studies which are focused on Ramadan. The idea is similar to regular fasting in that you're creating a more stressful environment in your body to promote culling weaker cells and boost fat loss (where the body supposedly extracts more water from within itself).

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/guide-to-dry-fasting/

If you're not eating during the fast, is it really necessary in the short term to have water to break down nutrients when none are being ingested? From my understanding of the dry fast, it's not supposed to be done under extreme conditions or physical duress. It seems doubtful that you're going to incur significant damage to your joints from a short period of abstinence. Wouldn't the main area of concern be damage to your organs, not joints?

Not arguing for or against this but want to cover all sides of the issue before settling on it being bunk.

Anecdotal loosely related story: when I was 18 I lived with a retired pro cyclist and his wife for 2 weeks who actually laughed at me for taking too much water on a 2 hour training ride claiming that he'd finished a 240km mountain stage in the tour de France with only 1 bottle in a year where he placed 5th overall. Not the same thing as dry fasting but still interesting.

Organs will take a major hit for sure with prolonged dehydration, but your body still breaks down stored nutrients, and water is needed for some of this.
Your joints require constant lubrication.

The choroid plexus of your brain is where cerebral spinal fluid is created. Dehydrating to excessive amounts slows this process down.

Even during ramadan, they still eat. Its more akin to IF.

To go further in cell destruction and regenerstion/genesis...
When your body is dehydrated from a lack of fluid loss, it tends to reduce extracellular fluid. Short term duration this isnt problematic.
Longer term and you begin to reduce intracellular volume, and kill off mitochondria in the process.

I dont hate fasts per se, but water should be the staple in it regardless of type.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

What do you all think of this? Anyone tried a dry fast? I didn't realize a hard dry fast was a thing

https://www.santosaphuket.com/fasting-water-vs-dry/

Its obviously a very very bad idea.

Any decent and healthy diet requires drinking a lot of water.

 

[Robocok]

Its obviously a very very bad idea.

Any decent and healthy diet requires drinking a lot of water.

Same could be said of food. It's vital for life and good health, yet fasting and its health benefits is a thing. Dry fasting was worth looking into, especially when a pro cyclist who finished 5th in the tour de France told me directly that I should try to train with less water.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Same could be said of food. It's vital for life and good health, yet fasting and its health benefits is a thing. Dry fasting was worth looking into, especially when a pro cyclist who finished 5th in the tour de France told me directly that I should try to train with less water.

How much water is 'less water?'

And having any water is not 'dry fasting.'

Any links for evidence that less water during training is better toward performance?

 

[Robocok]

How much water is 'less water?'

And having any water is not 'dry fasting.'

Any links for evidence that less water during training is better toward performance?

No, that's why I made a thread about it.

He did a long mountain stage 200+ km in the tour de France with one bottle and stated that he trained this way as well.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

No, that's why I made a thread about it.

He did a long mountain stage 200+ km in the tour de France with one bottle and stated that he trained this way as well.

So, there's no studies backing it up.

Sounds like broscience.

 

[Robocok]

So, there's no studies backing it up.

Sounds like broscience.

Correct

 

[Robocok]

New video by Delauer about this:

 

[Blake_UK]

New video by Delauer about this:

I have previously seen that video and it is interesting, I just think that like a lot of sports/nutrition science the headline is always about increasing one particular aspect of health without accurately placing it fully within the wider context (which is probably impossible anyway).

So yes, there is some evidence that dry fasting brings on autophagy earlier and increases it's level and effectiveness (as dehydrated cells are easier to recycle) but if you cant exercise properly like you can while wet fasting then imo the overall benefit (fat oxidation/glucose regulation/ketosis etc) must surely be lower.

The benefits of a 24-48hr wet fast are numerous and well known, and it can be achieved relatively easily and safely while still training and working. Dry fasting for 24hrs seems like a lot more work for little or no extra benefit with potential pitfalls around dehydration.