International Dutch documentary on Saudi Arabia. Pretty good.

[Islam Imamate]

I'm having a beer or two so don't mind if my replies get shorter and less in depth. I mostly skimmed your reply so this won't be an in depth response.


You know my social politics, right? I'm liberal if not affiliated with the current left.

Example of conservative cancer:
- My nieces best friend having to hide their friendship from his (Ahmed) parents until she got married. Why? Because they'd forbid him seeing her.
- My buddy Arbin being pressured to cover his wife up.
- My customer Ina catching shit from the Arab side of her family for working with an infidel without a male family member being present.

I don't necessarily agree with that stuff but calling us cancer for things like that seems a bit harsh to me. Like I said Orthodox Jews have similar norms but I rarely see anyone that bothered by their doing virtually the same thing.

Cancer spreads, right? Yes, mine was a crass analogy yet not one without merit. If anything Jews discourage, or at least make it hard to convert. So that would be off the mark. Israel on the other hand is clearly an expansionist country so I'd agree with that.

Not sure why you can't answer the relatively simple questions I ask. If a Muslim dude called Judaism cancer, would you give him the benefit of the doubt or assume he's antisemitic? When you say the cancer of Islam spreads, what are you referring to? The texts, sites of worship, or the adherents?

The rest of your reply? Sure there's outside pressure, but let's not compare the threat of being ostracized from family to strangers giving shit which has no real effect on your life other than being a pain in the ass.

Oh man, what a weak sauce reply. Being denied service and employment isn't merely a pain in the ass and that's the kind of thing Muslims have to deal with because of the kind of secularism you support which reins in places like France. And it wasn't random strangers who were critical of my beard and other habits, it was my family and friends most of all. Lots of pressure to get rid of the beard as well as other religious habits I tried to form. But please continue to tell me what its like to be Muslim.

 

[Natural Order]

Except you've openly said Islam is cancer.

Be honest, if a Muslim dude said Judaism is cancer would you really give him the benefit of the doubt or would you assume he's an anti-Semite? We both know the answer.

No one supports the migrant crisis, it was a crisis that had to be dealt with. Its probably worth noting that the victims there are the refugees, not people who were called mean names.

Growing a beard? The horror!

If hijabis are pressured by non-Muslims or secular Muslims to take it off should that be condemned also? Or is only one side allowed to proselytize their values?

He's not wrong. All derivatives of Abrahamic religion are plagues upon mankind. Only once all adherents realize their stupidity can we move forward as a species. Right now we're still playing toddler level games of tribalism about made up stories. This is peak nonsense bro. Time to move on.

 

[dragonsfly]

Good watch so far.

The reason Islam is a problem in a nutshell:
"Our constitution is the Quran and can never be changed". Lena, about 24 minutes in.

Islam isn't just a religion. It's an all encompassing set of rules and wholly incompatible with western thought and life. As long as the oil flows and such primitives control Mecca this won't change.

Edit: The body language of the lawyer is pretty telling when he talks about Kashoggi. Lol.

The problem is you guys.. What that Woman said couldn't have been said better we don't question the constitution of the Sharia which is technically a divine constitiution. There is nothing to debate about there.

But the problem lays with folks like you.. Nobody wants to be compatible with western values which is a pipe-dream for you guys that everyone has to be compatible which actully infringe on other peoples values and considered invasive and to much pushy. You do you and I do me it is that simple.

Nobody wants to adopt a western based values with gay marraiges and what not and it is viewed negatively because this people have had such lives in the past and such rules before Islam. This region has been thru alot of history from the babylonian era to the Assyrians, Egyptians, Sumerians etc etc there has been many extreme pornofication civilzations in this region but with the grace of god they become people with code of conduct.

All you gotta do is focus on your own western values and stop attempting to infringe on others values because it is not up for debate so don't waste your time. We can definitely live aside by aside as long as you keep what is yours and you go do you and I will do the same. Like mind your own business sort of thing.

 

[Islam Imamate]

He's not wrong. All derivatives of Abrahamic religion are plagues upon mankind. Only once all adherents realize their stupidity can we move forward as a species. Right now we're still playing toddler level games of tribalism about made up stories. This is peak nonsense bro. Time to move on.

I think you're the one who needs to move on, specifically from 2007. New Atheists aren't cool anymore.

 

[Natural Order]

I think you're the one who needs to move on, specifically from 2007. New Atheists aren't cool anymore.

Atheist, lol. Naw, you're just looking in the completely wrong area. You shouldn't be taking advice from angry, jealous man-Gods that are clearly derivatives of nonsensical human behaviour.

All of you are massively deluded. Admitting it is the first step.

 

[ElKarlo]

He's not wrong. All derivatives of Abrahamic religion are plagues upon mankind. Only once all adherents realize their stupidity can we move forward as a species. Right now we're still playing toddler level games of tribalism about made up stories. This is peak nonsense bro. Time to move on.

Problem is, religion is having little effect on the west. And with things coming undone so fast, I don’t think a more atheist populace is actually a good thing. As the moral structure of the Christian west is being replaced with basically nothing. Vapid tiktock and the such isn’t what a real civilization builds it’s foundation on

 

[Natural Order]

Problem is, religion is having little effect on the west. And with things coming undone so fast, I don’t think a more atheist populace is actually a good thing. As the moral structure of the Christian west is being replaced with basically nothing. Vapid tiktock and the such isn’t what a real civilization builds it’s foundation on

It isn't a good thing at all. Religion served a purpose and unfortunately we're not having logical conversations about how to move that premise forward. We're simply abandoning spirituality and deeper meaning for consumerism and materialism. It's all just charades in avoiding the inherent problem we face as human beings (ie existentialism and purpose).

The more I understand the world the more I see a creator, or at the very least, intent. Unfortunately, this 'creator' is and has absolutely nothing to do with some absurd man-God concept that exhibits all of the toddler-esque traits of human beings. The message is honest, the tribalism is human nonsense.

 

[Bald1]

The problem is you guys.. What that Woman said couldn't have been said better we don't question the constitution of the Sharia which is technically a divine constitiution. There is nothing to debate about there.

But the problem lays with folks like you.. Nobody wants to be compatible with western values which is a pipe-dream for you guys that everyone has to be compatible which actully infringe on other peoples values and considered invasive and to much pushy. You do you and I do me it is that simple.

Nobody wants to adopt a western based values with gay marraiges and what not and it is viewed negatively because this people have had such lives in the past and such rules before Islam. This region has been thru alot of history from the babylonian era to the Assyrians, Egyptians, Sumerians etc etc there has been many extreme pornofication civilzations in this region but with the grace of god they become people with code of conduct.

All you gotta do is focus on your own western values and stop attempting to infringe on others values because it is not up for debate so don't waste your time. We can definitely live aside by aside as long as you keep what is yours and you go do you and I will do the same. Like mind your own business sort of thing.

Deal. Keep your primitive cult in the primitive parts of the world and I won't go anywhere near you. Islam can thrive or fail in Islamland for all I care. My beef is you guys coming to the west in search of a better life yet refusing the ideas which foster and grow that better life.

 

[ElKarlo]

It isn't a good thing at all. Religion served a purpose and unfortunately we're not having logical conversations about how to move that premise forward. We're simply abandoning spirituality and deeper meaning for consumerism and materialism. It's all just charades in avoiding the inherent problem we face as human beings (ie existentialism and purpose).

The more I understand the world the more I see a creator, or at the very least, intent. Unfortunately, this 'creator' is and has absolutely nothing to do with some absurd man-God concept that exhibits all of the toddler-esque traits of human beings. The message is honest, the tribalism is human nonsense.

Ok, I understand your POV. That is for a different debate though.
I am a doubter at this point tbh, but the new testament is pretty interesting and appealing to me

 

[12ga.]

I worked in KSA for two years and those people were most noble people I ever encountered..... one time I was was lost. And this dude drove around for 8 hours to find right hotel. I tried to give 100 bucks and he refused...like an insult. Anyway I'm still friends with homey 30 years later. He's been to my house and me to his.

 

[JSN]

Many members of the Shura council graduated from US universities. But, they aren't changing Saudi culture to reflect their time in the US. My guess is because they would lose their social status and power (wasta) if they did once they returned to the kingdom.

If you’re some middle class person from a craphole, the chance to make $100+k a year bring an engineer in a first world country is a no-brained. If you’re part of the ruling class, it’s almost equally a no-brainer to go back home and be royalty for fuck all vs working hard for a meager upper middle class western existence.

 

[moosaev]

As long as the oil flows and such primitives control Mecca this won't change.

Didn’t you just accuse me of supporting Hungarian genocide because I called Hungarians uncivilized? Lol. @Khabib Khanate

 

[Bald1]

Didn’t you just accuse me of supporting Hungarian genocide because I called Hungarians uncivilized? Lol. @Khabib Khanate

Once again a flat out lie. Words; what are they and how do they work?

 

[moosaev]

Once again a flat out lie. Words; what are they and how do they work?

Stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[12ga.]

If you’re some middle class person from a craphole, the chance to make $100+k a year bring an engineer in a first world country is a no-brained. If you’re part of the ruling class, it’s almost equally a no-brainer to go back home and be royalty for fuck all vs working hard for a meager upper middle class western existence.

If you have an engineering degree you'd make 6x more in KSA than USA. Place is full of westererers and others from MENA like Egypt and Palestine because saudis dont want to hustle quite frankly. No dig on them, just system too easy compared to imports. Every saudi has extensive social welfare to include free education, HC and even $100000 downpayment for first house. This is why, while I'm liberal dont believe in socialism

 

[MicroBrew]

And continuing on with the synopsis.....


- At around the 27 minute mark, the German reporter meets a big time Saudi lawyer. The lawyer takes him for a ride in his Rolls and mentions he does not let anyone drive the Rolls, including his driver. This segment brought a chuckle to me

- Reporter asks the lawyer about which crimes are given the death penalty, to which the lawyer replies: intentional killing of a person. Unintentional killing receives a jail sentence and paying blood money. Reporter rhetorically aks: isn't it outdated to continue this 1400 year old concept. Lawyer says the perp must die to protect society, but the one exception is that the victim's family can pardon the killer from receiving a death sentence.

- Reporter then asks if the person to be executed can request death behind walls, as opposed to being beheaded in public. Lawyer replies that it is standard practice to behead in public, to serve as a warning to others. Reporter states that these public beheading are seen as cruel and anti Human rights in Europe. Lawyer states they accept the opinon of Human Rights Organization as long as they don't contradict Sharia.

- Reporter then states that we (Europeans) don't give 50 year sentences to bloggers and death penalty to women's rights activists. Lawyer states these people were involved in espionage for foreign parties.
NOTE: soo convenient for the Saudi government to smear every human rights activist as a spy, legitimising their incarceration and or death.

---
Visting a working class migrant worker ghetto

- Reporter is back on the road in his vehicle and talks about how Saudi Arabia does not acknowledge its poverty. He goes to a ghetto where "immigrants" live and films covertly. Note: while the documentary says "immigrants" I've a hunch they mean migrant workers or working class expats, because emmigraiton to Saudi Arabia is extremely rare.

- Reporter converses with a group of Sudanese. He asks them if life in Saudi Arabia is good, to which they don't answer affirmatively. Reporter mentions that several of the Sudanese men must leave the country as the Royal Family has decided that locals will take those positions. NOTE: Not likely that Saudis will take the blue collar jobs these Sudanese do.

- Reporter speaks with an unemployed Saudi named Mohaned, who studied marketing in England. Mohaned says he would get 2500 riyals ($666 ) a month if he didn't work. Mohammed says the youth in Saudi Arabia are spoilt.

----

More synopsis to follow tomorrow.....

 

[Bald1]

Stop embarrassing yourself.

Words: what are they and how do they work?

 

[dragonsfly]

Deal. Keep your primitive cult in the primitive parts of the world and I won't go anywhere near you. Islam can thrive or fail in Islamland for all I care. My beef is you guys coming to the west in search of a better life yet refusing the ideas which foster and grow that better life.

I never said you should accept anyone that is entirely on you and for all I care you can expel all these people. But just stay away from our values and go do you love yourself.. Nor expect me to take your values.. I don't care if you even legalize pedofile next in your own new babylonian rip off society after gay marriages the sky is the limit at this point..

Carry on

 

[Bald1]

I never said you should accept anyone that is entirely on you and for all I care you can expel all these people. But just stay away from our values and go do you love yourself.. Nor expect me to take your values.. I don't care if you even legalize pedofile next in your own new babylonian rip off society after gay marriages the sky is the limit at this point..

Carry on

The guy who thinks a literal pedophile is the most perfect man to ever live is insinuating I'd legalize that sickness? Talk projection.

 

[Morning Star]

This was a fantastic documentary. Thank you for sharing @MicroBrew. People need to be exposed to this type of content. Respect to the interviewer, although I felt some nerves for the interviewees with some of those questions. I'm surprised how much he was able to capture and how forthcoming most people were. I will have to check out more from that channel.