International Dutch documentary on Saudi Arabia. Pretty good.

Of course it's a horse shit. I'm using your tactics against you after all. Like when you implied calling Islam an invasive species a call for ethnic cleansing, right? Or when you said "dude calls us cancer" when I said "the conservative cancer that is Islam". A leap in logic at the very least, right? Sucks, right? Listen, you don't think much of secularism or women's rights, as evidenced by calling women who fuck who they want when they want "cumdumpsters" but you don't see me lying about your stances, right? Besides, if that guy bothered to quote my post my meaning would be clear. Here it is:



Now, what else you got? Hopefully no more lies and selective editing. Do better.
How are you gonna say you don't lie about my stances right after lying about my stance on women's rights? If you're going to be that blatantly dishonest and hypocritical in one sentence then I think we're done here.
 
How are you gonna say you don't lie about my stances right after lying about my stance on women's rights? If you're going to be that blatantly dishonest and hypocritical in one sentence then I think we're done here.
Seriously? I'm openly telling you I'm using your tactics against you and you think that's an accusation?

Let me be plain. You keep up your bullshit mind reading tactics and I'll do the same. The last few days have been the only time I've been dishonest after years of you lying about my posts. You don't like it, then quit with your dishonesty. Ball's in your court you weasel. You don't like weasel? Quit saying I'm slithering away when I don't reply to your lies.
 
@shankmcgank
And continuing on with the summary.

@Fluffernutter
He doesn't really touch on the wealth gap among Saudis. In this segment he brings up the rights of housemaids, but doesn't broach the subject of abuse and wage theft that many housemaids expereince.

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- Starting at around the 35 minute mark, the reporter talks to Zain, the Head of Recruiting at the Saudi Chamber of Commerce, the person Mohaned approached for a job.

- The reporter asks Zain: “ What’s the impact on foreign workers who have to leave this country”.

- Reply from the Zain : “ The impact is positive. One of the major impact is the money will be spent here, because we are hiring local”. “Now if you just go to the statistics, we are the second country where money goes outside.”

- Reporter asks: “but it’s also a little bit harsh to send them away”. The reporter is referring to migrant workers.

- Zain: It is , it is. As I said it is not an easy to leave them go. It’s not….we are happy that they are leaving, but sometimes we have to take it the hard way”. “So there is no emotion, at the end it’s an economy”.

- Reporter: “And the people who don’t want to leave but have to leave, how’s that going? “

- Zain: “Believe me, the peoples whose been here for more than 25 years, there are having a higher standard of living here”. “The maids…example : Indonesian maid , after 25 years she will go there , she will be having a better house than the house she working here”.

Commentary on the above:
Yeah that’s hard to believe, that an Indonesian maid will be able to build a better house in Indonesia than the house of her employer in Saudi. Saudis are notorious for abusing maids, which can range from mental to physical abuse to overwork. It is not uncommon for maids and other poor migrant workers to be ripped off on their wages.

- Reporter: “ after dozens of years working, Saudi Arabia is trying to send the workers back. They didn’t have many rights, and now even their right to stay is taken away".


Segment on Housemaids, with Zain specifically bringing up Indonesian housemaids.

- Reporter asks Zain: “ But is it possible that I will see a Saudi who is cleaning in this country?”

- Zain responds: “ there is , if you go to wedding hall at night, the Saudis are serving, specially the females, there is, I am saying we are not shy of cleaning, we are cleaning our houses, we are taking care of our plants, but in terms of public cleaning, we are (can’t make out what he says)

- Reporter: “ but why do we see it as modern slavery?"

- Zain: this is your point of view as an European and American, for here , for us and this region, it’s normal. It’s relation of employee and employer relation. I am just brought her to work at home, she is having her right, but at the same time, she is not the homeowner.

- Reporter: “ but that’s not the same rights as a Saudi has".

- Zain: “ Our, Saudi doesn’t work as home maid".


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I think it is very telling that Zain thinks Indonesian maids - or a housemaid from any country for that matter - shouldn't be afforded the same basic rights as a Saudi. This is steretypical Arabian attitude, that all races and nationalities should not be viewed equally.

Oh and by the way, I think this documentary is Dutch , not German. According to the YT wiki the YT channel is based in England.
 
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How are you gonna say you don't lie about my stances right after lying about my stance on women's rights? If you're going to be that blatantly dishonest and hypocritical in one sentence then I think we're done here.

Bro, you were acting in bad faith throughout the whole discussion. So why are you mad now? He has been generally answering your questions and made his point clear several times. You were equating „we are gonna civilize you“ with saying „saudis are primitive“. One is a direct threat whereas the other one is a statement without specifying any action. Do you see the distinction?
 
And now the final summary of the doc.

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- Reporter is invited to dinner by the big-shot lawyer he had earlier interviewed.

- Reporter starts to bring up Jamal Kashoggi. He is cut off by the host (the lawyer) saying that after dinner they can talk about everything

- After dinner and dessert, the reporter , the lawyer and some colleagues of the lawyer retire to another room to talk about Jamal Kashoggi.

- Reporter : " So Mr Khalid, the case of the journalist Kashoggi, where almost all world is talking about"

- Khalid : " legally this fact took place in a consulate..on Saudi ground. It's an internal case that is being investigated, just like with any other case" .

- Reporter: "Why not an independet inquiry?"

- Khalid: "According to crimminal and international law and the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, the prosection of the suspects only concerns Saudi Arabia. That country alone may impose penalties..following laws based on Islamic Sharia. We regret this incident and are saddened by it, but it's still and offense like any other".

-
Reporter states to the viewers that's the end of the discussion of it, they (Khalid and his colleagues) rather discuss the future, new projects that have been announced by the kingdom like the meglomanical NEOM.

- Khalid's colleagues / friends then talk about NEOM, a $500 billion dollar project

- Khalid's friend touts all the positives about NEOM.
- Reporter asks " open for tourism ? "
- Another one of Khalid's friends says : "They aren't supposed to wear bikinis. Women aren't free to do that".
- Khalid states NEOM will put Saudi Arabia on the back
- Reporter asks: "the reforms will not turn back? "
- Khalid's friend: "I don't think so, because it is not reforms, this is us"

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Doc then leaves the lawyer's reside and has the reporter walking on a Saudi street. Repoter states that Saudi Arabia sketches a future they hope the West believes. Reporter then heads to the prospective NEOM site. He mentions how NEOM will have entertainment and where IMAMS won't have influence. The conservative and liberal world will have to coexist.


Closing line from the reporter:

"As long as Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, supported by spiritual leaders, and as long as the Sharia governs, the divide with the West will remain. The reforms hardly help that". "But I realize that in a country where women and activists are oppressed, every step towards freedom is welcomed"
 
In all seriousness I think people way overestimate the extent that the Saudis buy influence. Yeah they fund religious institutions around the world but they probably spread their values further with their immigration policy where Muslims absorb their values while over there and then bring them back. I know of two girls who spent some years there and both came back wearing hijab.

If you want to beat the Saudis at that game then the West would have to establish a similar immigration system which is temporary and has no path to citizenship and then expand the scale of immigration to the West so you have more folks coming here, absorbing democratic values, and then taking those back home. But of course those with the most anxiety over Saudi influence are also those who are most against taking in more Muslim immigrants so I see that as unlikely.

No, in fact the Saudi influence on the whole West and in particular the US is grossly understated.

First is obviously their huge influence on oil markets where they dictate the price at will and influence most of opec, sustain unequivocal losses and bankrupt even self sufficient and healthy western based companies. Oil is the life blood of the economy and if it’s too expensive it might lead to collapse.
Second and more importantly is the petrodollars “deal”. Petrodollars is the one thing keeping the US economy afloat and as the most dominant allowing them to accumulate limitless debt. Petrodollars keep the demand and value for the US dollar high. Note I said “deal”, if one day the Saudis choose to pull the plug on this deal it’s the day US is no longer the dominant superpower allowing someone else to fill this void.
They also have strong lobbying and capital and property holdings and investments throughout the west and US. Their influence is strong enough to dictate international and local policies in these countries.

The Saudis are untouchable. They have you yanks by the balls and they’re well aware of it.
 
The Saudis are untouchable. They have you yanks by the balls and they’re well aware of it.

I am not soo sure on that. The US became a net exporter several years ago. Ironically it was Saudi Arabia who tried to destroy the US shale oil industry, and they attempted this by flooding the market to reduce the price per barrel of crude, making oil extracted via fracking non economically feasible.

The US doesn't need Saudi , but we continue to support them because of special interest lobbies in America. Saudi has been cosying up to Israel for several years now, partly to screw over Iran and partly to use the vast influence of the Israel lobby to get the US government to go easy on Saudi Arabia. Bin Salman knows the Israel lobby are kingmakers in D.C. , so he buddies up to them.

Saudi oil extraction and refining would be effed if the West stopped selling them equipment and services. China and Russia don't have oil extraction and refining tech that can match Western tech. In the 90s, Madelline Albright stopped the sale of US oil equipment to Russia claiming it was not in America's interest to do so.

Trump said that if the US withdrew support for Bin Salman, the Saudis would fall in 2 weeks. While Trump was exagerating, he was mostly right. The US has the ace cards; we can support Iran to screw over Saudi, but we don't because of the Israel lobby.
 
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