Effect of push-ups (body-weight, weighted, solely and in addition to weightlifting)

[Niels]

What would be the effects of different types of push-ups and in different scenarios? Both on performance and esthetics.

-Effect of push-ups only and how many should be done to see these results?

-Effect of weighted push-ups (weight on the back)

-Effect of bodyweight push-ups in addition to other weightlifting

I'm interested

 

[ChickenBrother]

What would be the effects of different types of push-ups and in different scenarios? Both on performance and esthetics.

-Effect of push-ups only and how many should be done to see these results?

-Effect of weighted push-ups (weight on the back)

-Effect of bodyweight push-ups in addition to other weightlifting

I'm interested

I spent 9 years in the U.S. Army having to do twice/year PT tests including as many push-ups as possible in 2 minutes (you have a grader standing in front of you and PU's only count if your torso is kept rigid in one plane, and your elbows must break 90 degrees or lower). My highest ever count was 162 PU's in 2 minutes.

I've never done weighted PU's but I did lift weights during that time, including barbell BP.

If I'd had the option, I would have cut out the PU's. While there are some benefits to core strengthening, etc., you can more readily accomplish that with planks and/or DL or hyperextensions/good mornings.

If strength/aesthetics are your goal, lifting heavy weight/low rep with adequate recovery is much more effective than PU's. And unless you're starting from untrained, PU's aren't very good for building strength or muscle anyway.

Doing what I did (a stupid amount of push-ups over multiple years) was pointless other than to beat everyone else in a tested event. When you can do that many PU's, it becomes more of a cardio thing vs. strength building, and I did permanent damage to my shoulders because in order to optimize the movement, I would flare my elbows out and get a "bounce" at 90 degrees to help on the way up (like you would do when breaking the plane in squats). Over time this did damage to my AC joints and rotator cuffs.

I lifted year round as well as push ups (and sit ups + running, the other tested events). Two weeks before a test, I would stop lifting entirely and focus just on the tested events, doing maybe 1000 PU's and SU's/day. After the test, I would find that doing all those PU's did NOT maintain my strength and I'd have to spend maybe 2 weeks building my BP back to what it had been.

 

[Legendary]

I think they are a decent exercise, but they hurt my elbows and shoulders so I don't do them anymore.

 

[corpse]

weighted push ups are a fine option if you can't bench for some reason. use a backpack and put your feet up. it's a little bit like incline bench.
newer metaanalysis says the rep range for pure hypertrophy isn't that important but you should incoroporate muscle failure and enough volume. but you won't gain much strength with push ups if you are benching more than your bodyweight already e.g.

for general fitness it is a good exercise. the harder variants like pike push ups or wall handstand push ups are good even for stronger people and you can do them everywhere.

 

[Turtlepawah]

It all comes down to what you prefer I think. If you like calisthenics, you can definitvely benefit from push ups, but if you are not that into it, bench press will likely be more beneficial. The thing about body weight training is that it takes way more skill to be able to put enough load on the muscles to build a relevant amount of strength than pumping iron does. You need to focus on correct form, and always seek to progress to harder variations when the results starts to show. Don't focus on reps; if you can do 10 of any exercise you're just wasting your time. The guy above that complained that doing a 1000 reps a day set him back, and that doing this with his elbows flared got him injured is a perfect example of this. Of course spawning such an absurd amount of reps with shitty form won't get you anywhere. Activate your core to really distribute your weight around your shoulders, and if you feel your form slipping, then that's the limit of many reps a set should contain.
There are tons of pushup variations and progression on youtube, some that require an insane amount of strength. Bottom line is, you need to commit to learn how to do them right for it to be worth it.

 

[ChickenBrother]

for general fitness it is a good exercise. the harder variants like pike push ups or wall handstand push ups are good even for stronger people and you can do them everywhere.

Handstand PU's are great. You can definitely build strength doing those and when I did them every morning for 2 weeks (when I was traveling without access to a gym), when I came home my BP strength had been maintained.

You need to focus on correct form, and always seek to progress to harder variations when the results starts to show. Don't focus on reps; if you can do 10 of any exercise you're just wasting your time. The guy above that complained that doing a 1000 reps a day set him back, and that doing this with his elbows flared got him injured is a perfect example of this. Of course spawning such an absurd amount of reps with shitty form won't get you anywhere. Activate your core to really distribute your weight around your shoulders, and if you feel your form slipping, then that's the limit of many reps a set should contain.

Yeah, focusing on exercise count instead of proper form is the way to get injured. Doing what cross-fitters do in going balls out with AMRAP for bragging rights is meathead stupidity.

Now that I'm older and wiser, I've had much better gains doing low rep, heavy weight, basic lifts and only as much weight as I can handle with perfect form and always leaving one rep in the tank. I used to go balls out and try to crank out that last rep with shitty wobbling form, and that's how I tore my rotator cuff.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

I spent 9 years in the U.S. Army having to do twice/year PT tests including as many push-ups as possible in 2 minutes (you have a grader standing in front of you and PU's only count if your torso is kept rigid in one plane, and your elbows must break 90 degrees or lower). My highest ever count was 162 PU's in 2 minutes.

I've never done weighted PU's but I did lift weights during that time, including barbell BP.

If I'd had the option, I would have cut out the PU's. While there are some benefits to core strengthening, etc., you can more readily accomplish that with planks and/or DL or hyperextensions/good mornings.

If strength/aesthetics are your goal, lifting heavy weight/low rep with adequate recovery is much more effective than PU's. And unless you're starting from untrained, PU's aren't very good for building strength or muscle anyway.

Doing what I did (a stupid amount of push-ups over multiple years) was pointless other than to beat everyone else in a tested event. When you can do that many PU's, it becomes more of a cardio thing vs. strength building, and I did permanent damage to my shoulders because in order to optimize the movement, I would flare my elbows out and get a "bounce" at 90 degrees to help on the way up (like you would do when breaking the plane in squats). Over time this did damage to my AC joints and rotator cuffs.

I lifted year round as well as push ups (and sit ups + running, the other tested events). Two weeks before a test, I would stop lifting entirely and focus just on the tested events, doing maybe 1000 PU's and SU's/day. After the test, I would find that doing all those PU's did NOT maintain my strength and I'd have to spend maybe 2 weeks building my BP back to what it had been.

nice post. amazing level of pushups, btw.

you were doing too many, though, and i think they are good as complimentary exercise.

to the reverse of what you are saying, when i stop doing pushups and focus on overhead pressing (i dont do bench, simply because i dont have a bench or the room) my overhead gets better but i lose that ability to deal with lactic acid, my pushups get worse and i feel like i should be in that plank for my core, too. Like you said, plank will do that, but i feel i might as well get that higher rep strength endurance in there, too.

i train off and on at a club, and also have buddies who will just wrestle for takedowns with me. I go several months without wrestling sometimes, and ive found, for sure, that pushups and pullups keep my arms in grappling/pommeling shape, whereas low rep pressing doesnt as much.

depends what you are going for. Cant get big off of pushups, but i think they maintain lower back and core strength and arm conditioning.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

oh, and something ive been doing lately to make pushups a bit more difficult, is putting my feet up a few stairs, and having my hands on some dumbells that are wide enough apart to allow my body to get lower than my hands. Gives it a bit of a fly effect and adds a little weight.

 

[Niels]

nice post. amazing level of pushups, btw.

you were doing too many, though, and i think they are good as complimentary exercise.

to the reverse of what you are saying, when i stop doing pushups and focus on overhead pressing (i dont do bench, simply because i dont have a bench or the room) my overhead gets better but i lose that ability to deal with lactic acid, my pushups get worse and i feel like i should be in that plank for my core, too. Like you said, plank will do that, but i feel i might as well get that higher rep strength endurance in there, too.

i train off and on at a club, and also have buddies who will just wrestle for takedowns with me. I go several months without wrestling sometimes, and ive found, for sure, that pushups and pullups keep my arms in grappling/pommeling shape, whereas low rep pressing doesnt as much.

depends what you are going for. Cant get big off of pushups, but i think they maintain lower back and core strength and arm conditioning.

I've got the same thing, but with Muay Thai, if I stop training for a while (and thus doing no push-ups) I notice I really suck at them when I pick it back up. Even when I've been weightlifting

 

[ChickenBrother]

nice post. amazing level of pushups, btw.

you were doing too many, though, and i think they are good as complimentary exercise.

to the reverse of what you are saying, when i stop doing pushups and focus on overhead pressing (i dont do bench, simply because i dont have a bench or the room) my overhead gets better but i lose that ability to deal with lactic acid, my pushups get worse and i feel like i should be in that plank for my core, too. Like you said, plank will do that, but i feel i might as well get that higher rep strength endurance in there, too.

i train off and on at a club, and also have buddies who will just wrestle for takedowns with me. I go several months without wrestling sometimes, and ive found, for sure, that pushups and pullups keep my arms in grappling/pommeling shape, whereas low rep pressing doesnt as much.

depends what you are going for. Cant get big off of pushups, but i think they maintain lower back and core strength and arm conditioning.

Yeah I went way overboard with the PU's. I think the required number to max the test for my age group was like 82. So I was just going apeshit for bragging rights.

The thing with PU's or any exercise really is that you have about a minute or so of anaerobic effort before the lactic acid sets in and you're at failure. If you do 7 or 8 really slow PU's say 4 seconds down, 4 sec up you will be fatigued after about a minute. You'll feel about the same level of fatigue if you have the speed and form to go balls out and crank out 100 PU's in a minute like I was doing. What drives the lactic acid is time under exertion, not # of reps.

But doing any high rep exercise past the lactate threshold will make your body more efficient at getting rid of lactic acid. So makes sense they could help your grappling/pummeling since that's more about endurance than explosion. But I think the best exercise for that is a hand crank machine (like a bicycle for your arms). Great for rehab or just a workout. You can crank the shit out of it way past where your arms are burning and there's no impact or jarring on any of your joints, like there would be for aggressive PU's past failure.

 

[ThunderL1ps]

I spent 9 years in the U.S. Army having to do twice/year PT tests including as many push-ups as possible in 2 minutes (you have a grader standing in front of you and PU's only count if your torso is kept rigid in one plane, and your elbows must break 90 degrees or lower). My highest ever count was 162 PU's in 2 minutes.

I've never done weighted PU's but I did lift weights during that time, including barbell BP.

If I'd had the option, I would have cut out the PU's. While there are some benefits to core strengthening, etc., you can more readily accomplish that with planks and/or DL or hyperextensions/good mornings.

If strength/aesthetics are your goal, lifting heavy weight/low rep with adequate recovery is much more effective than PU's. And unless you're starting from untrained, PU's aren't very good for building strength or muscle anyway.

Doing what I did (a stupid amount of push-ups over multiple years) was pointless other than to beat everyone else in a tested event. When you can do that many PU's, it becomes more of a cardio thing vs. strength building, and I did permanent damage to my shoulders because in order to optimize the movement, I would flare my elbows out and get a "bounce" at 90 degrees to help on the way up (like you would do when breaking the plane in squats). Over time this did damage to my AC joints and rotator cuffs.

I lifted year round as well as push ups (and sit ups + running, the other tested events). Two weeks before a test, I would stop lifting entirely and focus just on the tested events, doing maybe 1000 PU's and SU's/day. After the test, I would find that doing all those PU's did NOT maintain my strength and I'd have to spend maybe 2 weeks building my BP back to what it had been.

There are athletes like Herschel Walker and Ray Lewis that swear by daily pushups. Also the incarcerated UK inmate Charles Bronson/Salvador does thousands of pushups daily. Walker did a 375 bench and did 222 bench for 24 reps as a collegiate player. IIRC, Bronson who is in solitary most of the time, when given access to the weight room in prison can do a 400 pound bench. Even if you dont' believe the numbers, looking at their bodies you can tell that they have muscle and likely built from bodyweight only training. The NFL guys (Walker and Lewis) likely have had an assist from steroids and genetics, but Bronson lives on prison food with no PED's. Maybe Bronson has superior genetics too or maybe he doesn't, but one thing is for sure: form, variety and cadence is everything.

As for your injuries, sorry to hear about that. I've had similar issues (torn rotator cuff, separated right shoulder twice) but no issues from pushups. I had to get rid of barbell bench because my right shoulder can't handle it. With pushups I vary hand positions and generally try to keep my elbows at 45 degrees. I can imagine you would have those issues you spoke about by keeping your elbows at a 90 degree angle. Ouch.

I was thinking of getting a high quality push up board or maybe even push up bars to add some variety because there may be an added benefit of gripping something neurologically when you do pushups. I do use a bongo board which functions in a similar way with some instability/rolling thrown in for fun. It allows me to do "archer" push ups and generally keep elevated and add an unstable element with PU's --- although that can be done in so many ways (one hand/one foot; set up a band low on a power rack and try doing push-ups on that (!), etc.).

Push-ups is close to a full body exercise. Most know of the benefits to other body parts like shoulders, triceps, core. PU's also work your scapula in a way that the bench press does not --- hardly anyone ever mentions that. Also if you start playing around with hand positions and angles you can target your biceps, strengthen your hands and fingers.

Even train your back when you do pushups from the back of your hands/wrist:

 

[ChickenBrother]

There are athletes like Herschel Walker and Ray Lewis that swear by daily pushups. Also the incarcerated UK inmate Charles Bronson/Salvador does thousands of pushups daily. Walker did a 375 bench and did 222 bench for 24 reps as a collegiate player. IIRC, Bronson who is in solitary most of the time, when given access to the weight room in prison can do a 400 pound bench. Even if you dont' believe the numbers, looking at their bodies you can tell that they have muscle and likely built from bodyweight only training. The NFL guys (Walker and Lewis) likely have had an assist from steroids and genetics, but Bronson lives on prison food with no PED's. Maybe Bronson has superior genetics too or maybe he doesn't, but one thing is for sure: form, variety and cadence is everything.

As for your injuries, sorry to hear about that. I've had similar issues (torn rotator cuff, separated right shoulder twice) but no issues from pushups. I had to get rid of barbell bench because my right shoulder can't handle it. With pushups I vary hand positions and generally try to keep my elbows at 45 degrees. I can imagine you would have those issues you spoke about by keeping your elbows at a 90 degree angle. Ouch.

I was thinking of getting a high quality push up board or maybe even push up bars to add some variety because there may be an added benefit of gripping something neurologically when you do pushups. I do use a bongo board which functions in a similar way with some instability/rolling thrown in for fun. It allows me to do "archer" push ups and generally keep elevated and add an unstable element with PU's --- although that can be done in so many ways (one hand/one foot; set up a band low on a power rack and try doing push-ups on that (!), etc.).

Push-ups is close to a full body exercise. Most know of the benefits to other body parts like shoulders, triceps, core. PU's also work your scapula in a way that the bench press does not --- hardly anyone ever mentions that. Also if you start playing around with hand positions and angles you can target your biceps, strengthen your hands and fingers.

Even train your back when you do pushups from the back of your hands/wrist:

Agree. I think PU's can be part of a good exercise routine as long as you vary the hand positions, don't flare your elbows out, and don't go balls out for reps at the expense of good form.

I injured myself previously because of two factors: 1) I was overtraining - I would lift/exercise/run 5-6 days/week sometimes multiple times/day and would go to failure on every set; 2) I was seeking higher reps at the expense of good form.

I played around with many hand positions, and elbows flared out with a bounce at 90 degrees allowed me to do the most PU's in the shortest amount of time. It was the same form I used on barbell BP and hitting the heavy bag also affected my shoulder in the same (bad) way.

After I tore my rotator (going for 1-rep max on barbell BP with elbows flared), I stopped doing BP, PU's, or hitting heavy bags for 3 years. When I started doing barbell BP again, the thing that corrected my form was switching to 5-finger "suicide grip." It took a few months to get used to, but using that grip forces your elbows to stay at 45 degrees to your body, with shoulders tighter packed and I haven't had any shoulder injuries since. It's called "suicide grip" for a reason but I've never dropped the bar in 5 years benching this way, and as long as you have a spotter (I use spotter bars in my home squat rack), you're safe.

While there are benefits to bodyweight training, if size + strength are your objectives, you're better served doing free weights. For every genetic freak (or PED user) who gets big and strong doing bodyweight exercises, that same person could get even bigger and stronger if they did a barbell powerlifting style routine.

 

[SandisLL]

I had experience with so different opinions about push ups that I can't tell what approach is better.
I will not write truly TMA specific stuff, there also different opinions and people are different with different bodies.

One trainer has opinion, that If you are able to do 100 push ups, to do more in one cycle didn't improve enough to be worth to do more.
Opinion was that for static strength development push ups better is to do slowly, like 20 pushups in 1 minute.
Dynamic exercise better is to do quickly, 60 - 80 pushups in 1 minute.
Anyway he newer did more than 100 pushups per cycle, despite really hardcore guy; did standup on hands with legs up for 90 seconds etc hardcore stuff.