Fedor's skillset in 2020

[Kono dio da!]

I wasn't an mma fan during the pride days. I also didn't have any means to access it. So all the pride stuff I know is anecdotal and archived footage. Many people still hold fedor as the GOAT. I'm not here to defend or to refute that claim. Some day he'd beat Stipe if he was in his prime. I don't know or care about that either.

My question is this: fedor is known for being a destroyer with a well rounded skillset. If you were to put prime fedor, the one who beat cro cop in today's heavyweight division, factoring in the evolution of the sport and the fact that a lot fighters have studied his style and copied is in different ways, would he dominate the same way stipe did? Would his skillset and athleticism allow him to, for instance beat francis (possibly outstrike him), would he beat overeem (you can toss in different iterations of him to make things interesting), dc, stipe, jairzinho, could he withstand curtis blaydes' ground and pound and takedowns etc?

Please don't flame me I'm just curious to know. Was he so far ahead that his skillset could transcend the evolution of the sport or would he get housed by today's finest?

 

[Sweater of AV]

If you were to put prime fedor, the one who beat cro cop in today's heavyweight division, factoring in the evolution of the sport and the fact that a lot fighters have studied his style and copied is in different ways, would he dominate the same way stipe did?

Fedor's dominance would be unmatched.

Was he so far ahead that his skillset could transcend the evolution of the sport...

Yes.

 

[Fesaine]

You would never get a objective answer on sherdog. This forum is the home of Fedor cult.

 

[leatherneck]

dont listen to the opinions of sherdog.

listen to the fighters, particularly heavyweights.

hes the far and away consensus #1 in every fighter poll.

Overeem
Barnett
Bas Rutten
Coleman
Werdum
Kevin Randleman
Mike Tyson
Randy Couture
Silva
Crocop
Nogueira
Rampage

 

[TheMessiah]

Moved lol

 

[BFoe]

Yes, I don’t see any reason why he wouldn’t be an elite fighter and likely champ. Bear in mind that Arlovski was one fight away from a title shot in 2017. Prime Fedor was a very accurate puncher, had excellent striking defense, was very fast, an excellent grappler, and he chained strikes, takedowns, and submissions together extremely well. If Derrick Lewis is top 5 in 2020, prime Fedor easily would be as well.

 

[leatherneck]

 

[CinemaKingdom]

Considering HWs are worse now than in Fedor's day, of course he would still be the best. Take the guys now and move them back in the Pride/UFC days and they would not come out on top. Heck, some of those guys from over 13 YEARS ago are still in the top 10 and many more were until very recently. That should tell you all you need to know.

 

[leatherneck]

 

[leatherneck]

 

[RustyShacleford]

Fedor could really do it all: Wrestling, submissions, striking (with power), and was incredibly durable to boot. He would have for sure been a top competitor/champ today if he was in his prime, tho I don't think he'd keep the same undefeated record.

He just didn't age aswell into his 30's because his chin and youthful athleticism wore out. Also he might have gotten too comfortable with the notion that he could just pull a win out of anywhere. There were several fights before his skid where he appeared to be in real trouble, only to pull off a flash sub or ko. I mean he must have thought he was invincible to dive into Werdum's guard the way he did.

 

[fzoid4454]

I wasn't an mma fan during the pride days. I also didn't have any means to access it. So all the pride stuff I know is anecdotal and archived footage. Many people still hold fedor as the GOAT. I'm not here to defend or to refute that claim. Some day he'd beat Stipe if he was in his prime. I don't know or care about that either.

My question is this: fedor is known for being a destroyer with a well rounded skillset. If you were to put prime fedor, the one who beat cro cop in today's heavyweight division, factoring in the evolution of the sport and the fact that a lot fighters have studied his style and copied is in different ways, would he dominate the same way stipe did? Would his skillset and athleticism allow him to, for instance beat francis (possibly outstrike him), would he beat overeem (you can toss in different iterations of him to make things interesting), dc, stipe, jairzinho, could he withstand curtis blaydes' ground and pound and takedowns etc?

Please don't flame me I'm just curious to know. Was he so far ahead that his skillset could transcend the evolution of the sport or would he get housed by today's finest?

Here's the thing about hypotheticals like this - everyone in this hypothetical matchup gets the benefit of more modern training, a more mature sport, from watching Fedor..... but in the hypothetical he somehow doesn't get those same advantages? Or if today's best travel back in time, they have these advantages that didn't exist?

If all these more modern MMA factors would nullify the gap between Fedor and other fighters, then Fedor having access to them would make him that much better, as well, and the gap would be there, again.

You can only judge someone by how they did against the elite of their era.

Jesse Owens was the fastest man alive in his prime. For almost all of his prime, women of today run faster than the times he was putting up.

Same with Johnny Weismuller in swimming.

That doesn't retroactively mean they sucked. They were, by far, the best, beating all of the elite, and if transformed into modern times, there's no reason to think they wouldn't still do so.

Now, in a mature combat sport, like boxing, we can look at different eras and say that certain weight classes had "down" years - Larry Holmes had some epic fights against the great heavyweights of the Ali/Foreman/Frazier era. Once those fighters were gone, and he was the undisputed king, the level of competition was not what it was. This is also true for Tyson's prime, though, in that case, we could have measured him against a better wave of competition had he held his shit together and had a normal prime timespan.

But that's not MMA. It's still a relatively "young" combat sport, and many of the names when Fedor was reigning at his best were still competing and doing well as we transitioned into more modern times.

Fedor did and still does hit like a Mack truck. His handspeed is still very fast, as Sonnen said, but in his prime it was better. Lighting fast for a HW. He handled adversity well, and had an excellent submission game. He was well-rounded in all aspects of the sport, and I don't see anyone that matches that.

Werdum, during his hot streak, came close when he was out-striking strikers, but he didn't have the raw power that Fedor could deliver.

 

[Kono dio da!]

Here's the thing about hypotheticals like this - everyone in this hypothetical matchup gets the benefit of more modern training, a more mature sport, from watching Fedor..... but in the hypothetical he somehow doesn't get those same advantages? Or if today's best travel back in time, they have these advantages that didn't exist?

If all these more modern MMA factors would nullify the gap between Fedor and other fighters, then Fedor having access to them would make him that much better, as well, and the gap would be there, again.

You can only judge someone by how they did against the elite of their era.

Jesse Owens was the fastest man alive in his prime. For almost all of his prime, women of today run faster than the times he was putting up.

Same with Johnny Weismuller in swimming.

That doesn't retroactively mean they sucked. They were, by far, the best, beating all of the elite, and if transformed into modern times, there's no reason to think they wouldn't still do so.

Now, in a mature combat sport, like boxing, we can look at different eras and say that certain weight classes had "down" years - Larry Holmes had some epic fights against the great heavyweights of the Ali/Foreman/Frazier era. Once those fighters were gone, and he was the undisputed king, the level of competition was not what it was. This is also true for Tyson's prime, though, in that case, we could have measured him against a better wave of competition had he held his shit together and had a normal prime timespan.

But that's not MMA. It's still a relatively "young" combat sport, and many of the names when Fedor was reigning at his best were still competing and doing well as we transitioned into more modern times.

Fedor did and still does hit like a Mack truck. His handspeed is still very fast, as Sonnen said, but in his prime it was better. Lighting fast for a HW. He handled adversity well, and had an excellent submission game. He was well-rounded in all aspects of the sport, and I don't see anyone that matches that.

Werdum, during his hot streak, came close when he was out-striking strikers, but he didn't have the raw power that Fedor could deliver.

When you say he was powerful. How powerful are we talking here? Rumble power? Stipe power? Lewis power? Jairzinho power or Francis power? Gotta ascertain.
There's a reason I made such a seemingly unfair hypothetical. It's because everyone believes in fedor so much. Of course he'd dominate if he was ten years younger and in his prime right now. I'm talking fedor from back then without 2020 knowledge vs overeem or blaydes of today. That's what I want to know.

 

[fzoid4454]

When you say he was powerful. How powerful are we talking here? Rumble power? Stipe power? Lewis power? Jairzinho power or Francis power? Gotta ascertain.
There's a reason I made such a seemingly unfair hypothetical. It's because everyone believes in fedor so much. Of course he'd dominate if he was ten years younger and in his prime right now. I'm talking fedor from back then without 2020 knowledge vs overeem or blaydes of today. That's what I want to know.

Well, Francis power comes at the cost of technique. While he's throwing wild sweeping, looping shots, chin forward, with zero defense that very quick Fedor comes over the top and puts him to sleep. Ngannou would either have to give up a lot of that power to fight in a fundamentally sound way, or swing wildly with almost no hope of connecting in a meaningful way.. So it really doesn't matter if Francis > Fedor in raw power, because it's also about whether you can deliver it or not. More power than Stipe, certainly. Rumble is a pretty good comparison. Lewis has greater brute strength, for sure, and much better technique than Francis, but there would be a speed disadvantage.

Stipe would be giving away quite a bit of power, but his technique is better, and he could, potentially, keep Fedor at bay and bust up a decent amount with his boxing, but I think Fedor eventually catches up with him. And, even with Stipe, he still has that speed edge. He definitely handles Reem, who's chin couldn't even hold up as a LHW. Blades wouldn't give him too much of a problem, either.

Fedor in his prime is only going to lose to someone with really good handspeed and power. You'd have to get him out via KO or catch him being sloppy with a submission, which didn't happen at his best, but, hey, Werdum is the best of the best, so who knows?

 

[Kono dio da!]

Well, Francis power comes at the cost of technique. While he's throwing wild sweeping, looping shots, chin forward, with zero defense that very quick Fedor comes over the top and puts him to sleep. Ngannou would either have to give up a lot of that power to fight in a fundamentally sound way, or swing wildly with almost no hope of connecting in a meaningful way.. So it really doesn't matter if Francis > Fedor in raw power, because it's also about whether you can deliver it or not. More power than Stipe, certainly. Rumble is a pretty good comparison. Lewis has greater brute strength, for sure, and much better technique than Francis, but there would be a speed disadvantage.

Stipe would be giving away quite a bit of power, but his technique is better, and he could, potentially, keep Fedor at bay and bust up a decent amount with his boxing, but I think Fedor eventually catches up with him. And, even with Stipe, he still has that speed edge. He definitely handles Reem, who's chin couldn't even hold up as a LHW. Blades wouldn't give him too much of a problem, either.

Fedor in his prime is only going to lose to someone with really good handspeed and power. You'd have to get him out via KO or catch him being sloppy with a submission, which didn't happen at his best, but, hey, Werdum is the best of the best, so who knows?

Gegard trains/trained with fedor. Are there any similarities in the way they fight/fought? Also did fedor ever kick outside of the crocop fight? If not why not?

 

[fzoid4454]

Gegard trains/trained with fedor. Are there any similarities in the way they fight/fought? Also did fedor ever kick outside of the crocop fight? If not why not?

I don't see a lot of similarity. Gegard has much cleaner striking technique than Fedor and a more traditional martial arts background. Of course, Mousasi has much cleaner striking technique than pretty much anyone in MMA. With the exception of the first Machida fight, I can't think of anyone who stood and outstruck Mousasi. Hall caught him with a wild and spectacular kick, but other than that one shot, Mousasi was dominating the action on their feet. All of his losses have come via grappling, either submission (not many, because he's good off his back, as well) or, more often, control grappling (aka "wrestlefuck").

He trained in judo as a child. He was an amateur boxer and the national champion as a teenager, and then a kickboxer, briefly but very successfully before going into MMA.

Fedor also trained with judo, but the rest is all combat sambo.