Economy Former Democrat senator says Biden’s plan to tax assets at death would hurt family businesses

[nostradumbass]

We have extremely low taxes for a developed country. And not sure what the basis for scaling one nation's debt to global GDP is, but it's less than a third. Better scaling would be debt interest to (U.S.) GDP, and that's about 1.65% (compared to almost 3% in the late '80s and over 3% in the early '90s), which is not a concerning level. Also completely irrelevant to the issue of whether taxing people who receive millions of unearned dollars is wrong or will have any particular negative impact. Also funny how with all the populist bleating of the idiot GOP, the only significant legislation passed last time they controlled the gov't was a tax cut for rich people and corporations, and they're currently crying about people who inherit millions of dollars possibly having to pay taxes on some of it. God forbid anyone actually work for a living.

Holy shit, you're still here?

When are you claiming is "the last time the GOP controlled the government"? How many positions in the federal government are elected positions, and when have the majority of federal employees ever in history been republicans?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Holy shit, you're still here?

When are you claiming is "the last time the GOP controlled the government"? How many positions in the federal government are elected positions, and when have the majority of federal employees ever in history been republicans?

The last time they had control of Congress and the WH. This isn't some kind of esoteric lore here, bud. And what about the rest of the post? You might want to update your theory in light of the fact that the data you are apparently basing it on is wrong.

 

[UFCUCF]

News flash: Family businesses would rather not pay taxes. Shocking.

 

[chardog]

Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and other billionaires take out millions of dollars worth of loans by putting their art collection or cars as collateral in order to avoid paying taxes.

interest on a loan that gets to be written off, is going to be a whole lot lower than the top income bracket

claiming depreciation on property can be a good scheme on an asset that appreciates, bezos has hundreds of millions in real estate....

coincidentally, bill gates has godly amounts of real estate

these guys probably use loans rather than income to fund their lifestyles, easier to keep their money protected.

 

[nostradumbass]

The last time they had control of Congress and the WH. This isn't some kind of esoteric lore here, bud. And what about the rest of the post? You might want to update your theory in light of the fact that the data you are apparently basing it on is wrong.

And we're claiming that 300 positions in a 2.1 million person federal workforce is a "majority" that can just do whatever they want?

 

[Gutter Chris]

No. Luckily I didn’t grow up In Flyover country

I don't like the term flyover country very much

 

[blaseblah]

The original proposal did not have any exemption.

That's not true. You obviously haven't read the original proposal. You're just parroting whatever you read on some fake news article.

 

[Jack V Savage]

And we're claiming that 300 positions in a 2.1 million person federal workforce is a "majority" that can just do whatever they want?

Not too sharp, are you? OK, so first, let's point out that you were misleading when you talked about U.S. taxes (they're very low relative to other countries), you were wrong when you said that U.S. cumulative debt was half of global GDP, it was dumb to even compare them, you were wrong to suggest that U.S. debt burden was high, and your concerns were irrelevant to the ongoing discussion.

Now, with that aside, I pointed out that the last time the GOP controlled the gov't (i.e., when they had the power to pass laws), the only major move they made was to cut taxes for rich people and corporations. It is not true, as you seem to be suggesting, that all gov't employees have to sign off on legislation. It just takes Congress and, unless there's a veto-proof majority, the president. This has been your civics lesson for today.

 

[White Whale]

interest on a loan that gets to be written off, is going to be a whole lot lower than the top income bracket

claiming depreciation on property can be a good scheme on an asset that appreciates, bezos has hundreds of millions in real estate....

coincidentally, bill gates has godly amounts of real estate

these guys probably use loans rather than income to fund their lifestyles, easier to keep their money protected.

That’s pretty much exactly what they do.

 

[nostradumbass]

Not too sharp, are you? OK, so first, let's point out that you were misleading when you talked about U.S. taxes (they're very low relative to other countries), you were wrong when you said that U.S. cumulative debt was half of global GDP, it was dumb to even compare them, you were wrong to suggest that U.S. debt burden was high, and your concerns were irrelevant to the ongoing discussion.

Now, with that aside, I pointed out that the last time the GOP controlled the gov't (i.e., when they had the power to pass laws), the only major move they made was to cut taxes for rich people and corporations. It is not true, as you seem to be suggesting, that all gov't employees have to sign off on legislation. It just takes Congress and, unless there's a veto-proof majority, the president. This has been your civics lesson for today.

And here's yours; the US debt is almost $29 trillion, and the global GDP is like 80. There is 0 sign that America will ever have a cleared debt in this lifetime, and you're bitching about wanting higher taxes because you seem to think they haven't just been printing money for 20 years with a "spend now, maybe we'll get it later and maybe not" attitude. The budget is not based on revenue and hasn't been for multiple decades now.

 

[Jack V Savage]

And here's yours; the US debt is almost $29 trillion, and the global GDP is like 80. There is 0 sign that America will ever have a cleared debt in this lifetime, and you're bitching about wanting higher taxes because you seem to think they haven't just been printing money for 20 years with a "spend now, maybe we'll get it later and maybe not" attitude. The budget is not based on revenue and hasn't been for multiple decades now.

Can you quote where I'm bitching about wanting higher taxes? Let's try to stay grounded in reality here. Again, you posted a bunch of misleading or outright false claims, and the purpose was just to deflect from the topic of the discussion. Is there any reason to expect any particular bad outcome from taxing people who inherit millions of dollars? Is there any real objection to it?

 

[ChickenBrother]

That's not true. You obviously haven't read the original proposal. You're just parroting whatever you read on some fake news article.

Please post the explicit terms of the exemption from your real news articles. A 15-year payment plan for a new tax is not an "exemption." The existing exemption I referred to (and which to my knowledge is not included in any of the recent proposals) is the $11.7MM estate ceiling, below which you would get a stepped up basis and thus no capital gains tax owed upon inheritance, whether or not you chose to sell.

I'm open to being corrected but as I understand it, current proposal is to eliminate this exemption entirely which IMO is impractical. FMV of the estate is objective and easily determined via 3rd party appraisal. In its place, current proposals appear to promise limited "exemptions" based on beneficiary's income or net worth, both of which are more easily manipulated via tax structures.

My primary objection to this tax bill is that it would overturn a foundational precept of inheritance planning. If they wanted to cut the $11.7MM ceiling down to $5MM or whatever, have at it. At least the same construct would remain in place to plan around. Turning it on it's face is about as defensible as telling your citizens for hundreds of years that saving and investing for decades so you can own 1 or 2 rental properties is a valid way to build wealth. Only to then be told you're not allowed to evict tenants who don't pay rent but you still have to bear the costs.

Defense of Biden's proposal seems to boil down to "anyone with net worth >$1 million already has too much money. Fuck 'em." I didn't even vote for Trump but I believe in consistently sound economic principles and this ain't it.

 

[Benjamin Burton]

a million dollar asset is far from rich.... my entire city and neighboring cities are comprised of homes north of 1M. It's laughable to think there are that many rich people...... the vast majority of these folks couldnt even afford a nanny. to me, you've got to have at least a 5M dollar home and nanny/full time maid/cleaner to be considered rich. if you can afford it, but dont think it's worth the price..... you aint rich. There are levels to this, and obviously, you're peon level.

Haha literally nothing I said has anything to do with this pathetic diatribe

 

[jx820]

you act as if having a million in assets is somehow rich............................................................

you're just poor

I didn't say the word rich. I very specifically used the world millionaire.

mil·lion·aire /ˌmilyəˈner,ˈmilyəˌner/ noun - a person whose assets are worth one million dollars or more.

 

[Whippy McGee]

You really have no idea how the ultra wealthy deal with assets. A death tax will no more effect a bIllionaire than it will a homeless person.

They either are ignorant or don't care that this is really targeted towards "new money" wealthy. The Trusts, Off shore assets and banking, and other investment vehicles used by the ultra wealthy shield them completely. By the time they die, nothing is solely in their name. The relatives inheriting are co-trust participants eliminating taxes of all kinds.

Death Taxes will hurt innovations as incentive is diminished. It's a bad idea.

 

[SaiWa]

The original proposal did not have any exemption. Those are being negotiated and actual terms of exemption(s) if any, has not been released. The House is expected to make the tax portion of the proposed bill public sometime next week.

But since you've accused me of "mouthing off fake news," would you be so kind as to specify the explicit terms of the exemption that you've equated with your ass?

link to the original proposal by the Biden administration please…

 

[Scerpi]

Wait, so people who are given millions of unearned dollars might have to pay taxes on some of it? What an outrage! This is the worst thing that has ever happened.

Why is Gov’t entitled to any of it… it’s already been taxed, likely several times

Class Envy… lol

 

[lifelessheap]

News flash: Family businesses would rather not pay taxes. Shocking.

Family businesses pay taxes. The business has always been taxed. Why double tax it because someone died?

 

[emefer]

The first murderer in the bible was a farmer. Fuck em.
Also It's not a death tax, It's a tax on newly acquired wealth by a living person.

 

[emefer]

Why is Gov’t entitled to any of it… it’s already been taxed, likely several times

Class Envy… lol

Same reason you are taxed on income and lottery winnings, it is income and is taxed.