He did it for money
Gordon Ryan is the greatest grappler of all time
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He did it for money
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Imo we should separate nogi and gi bjj. Just too different . In Gi BJJ I dont think Ryan will ever even be considered a possible GOAT.
Roger alone is such a monster. In Nogi for sure. To me Marcelo is the P4P nr.1 guy but Ryan definitely is close.
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Greatest No-Gi grappler? Probably. GOAT grappler? Not even close. As others have pointed out, grappling is just too wide a field for one man, no matter how talented, to dominate all variations of it.
Karelin and Kimura would have absolutely destroyed Ryan in their respective sports, just as Ryan would have tapped them under No-Gi rules.
Karelin and Kimura would have absolutely destroyed Ryan in their respective sports, just as Ryan would have tapped them under No-Gi rules.
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If he is the GOAT no-gi grappler how is he not even close to being the GOAT grappler? Being the best at one category should at least put him in the running lol
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Because rules make fights. Karelin was undefeated for 13 years. He went to four Olympics, won three Golds and a Silver. He is widely regarded as being the greatest Greco-Roman Wrestler in history. But not the best Grappler. Because, just like Ryan, he dominated a sport with a very specific rule set.
Ryan isn't winning any Wrestling tournaments, anymore than top Olympic Wrestlers are contenders for ADCC titles. Ryan would tap out world class Judo players under No-Gi rules, but put him in a Judo tournament and he'd get smashed into the mats by decent Black Belts.
There is no such thing as the GOAT Grappler. Various sub-divisions of Grappling all have their own GOAT's. Ryan is the best at his particular niche, which is impressive enough.
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Good points.
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Before you said "Greatest No-Gi grappler? Probably. GOAT grappler? Not even close." So your argument is not that he isn't even close, it's that one doesn't exist. Got it. You changed what you were saying.
The problem is you are saying if you add more limitations then these other guys can be champs under rulesets that are more limited than Gordon's ruleset (which really only removes striking). Gordon's is the closest to just free grappling without restrictions and he is the best at it. Making him the best.
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Wrong. No-gi isn't any, "purer" than BJJ with a Gi, Olympic Wrestling or Judo. It's just different. The level of technique required by an Olympic level Wrestler or Judo player is at least as high as that of ADCC competitors.
As I said, he's the best in the world at his particular sub-set of grappling. That's impressive enough on it's own. You want to swing on his nuts and say that makes him the best grappler in the world? Knock yourself out. But you won't have much success convincing people outside of Ryan's fan boys.
The irony is I think Gordon could crush it in the gi. He doesn’t have a very no-gi specific style. Meaning most of his signature techniques work well gi and no-gi. There also aren’t as many elite technicians at the highest weight classes that he’s in. There’s less competition in general because there are less massive sized men. And his game is measured with rather slow tempo. There’s not much reliance on speed or explosiveness. I think he’s do well with the slower tempo.
I don’t think he’d win worlds the first time around. But he’s very young and absorbs info like a sponge. Within a few years I think he could win at super heavy or ultra heavy.
Pena was definitely smart to get those Ws over Gordon when it was still more realistic to do so
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Ah, I see. First you change your argument mid-debate because you sounded like a moron, and now you are creating a strawman to argue against. Being a fan of Gordon is completely irrelevant and you admitted yourself he is the best at what he does. You are trying to make that the topic when it isn't. No-gi is more pure, because there are less rules. It's just straight grappling and trying to finish someone. That's as pure as it gets besides adding in strikes. You want everything to be weighed equally when it simply isn't. Take away all the restrictions and just let guys go, Gordon comes out on top; straight fact. That isn't because anyone is hanging off his nuts, it's because he is the best at the most free form of grappling we have.
This is like arguing that sport TKD is as good as MMA as a martial art because they have different rule sets and someone can be the best at sport TKD so he is equal to Miocic or whoever is the current champ at whatever weight class, when the reality is MMA if better for fighting and no-gi is better for grappling. The more rules you remove, the more bs nonsense you takeaway, the closer you get to the truth of fighting/grappling.
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Let's take your argument - if we can call it that - to it's logical conclusion. If we accept that No-Gi is the purest form of Grappling because it has less rules, that makes Muay Thai a purer striking art than Western Boxing. Because there is less restraint in what one can strike with, right?
Are you really this stupid? Or are you just Trolling me?
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Gordon cannot submit what he cannot see.
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He is trying to do that but no one will fight him anymore. He is calling out a guy that was meant to fight him anyway at ADCC but trying to get the match before Galvao retires.
The only thing he hasn't done is Gi comps and I would rather he didn't to be honest.
I even remember him posting that he thinks Roger is the overall GOAT and that he is just the No gi GOAT. I think that was a pretty good way to put things.
I never used to like him but he is just an opinionated younger person on social media. If you don't follow him you can't see what he says.
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The level in the adcc is utter shit compared to high level wrestling and judo events.
A lot of people competing don't even train for this ruleset full time and try to adapt a skillset from a different sport which is utterly amateurish.
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ok?
He didn’t have the best career outcome, but he got some cool wins and had a few fun fights. Maybe he didn’t live up to expectations but I’ll never understand how people that do a martial art (and know what it’s like to put it on the line) are so comfortable to just sit back and say another elite martial artist that had a pro MMA career that they sucked at it.
I’m with this. But I also think the days of the Marcelo, Braulio, Roger, Rafa, Andre, and Pena types that can win adcc and mundials are drawing to a close.
There’s a few left like Lepri and JT for example that have the skills and a deep enough understanding to where they’ve can make the finals at both events.
But I think at adcc 2022 and certainly at adcc 2024 we will see the podiums dominated by no-gi focused athletes, and we will keep seeing the mundials podiums dominated by gi focused athletes. I think less gi focused athletes will make attempts at adcc from here on. There were already much less than ever before at adcc 2019.
Both gi and no-gi are getting complex enough in terms of their own movements and strategies to where it’s not realistic to expect upcoming athletes to be able to be elite in both realms.
