Gordon Ryan is the greatest grappler of all time

there is no more debate....

he even called the winning submission 10 minutes before the match


I'm not the biggest fan of Ryan but his talent is undeniable. I thought this was some sort of a drilling/technique video when I saw it the first time, only to realize it was a live match - he's that smooth and technical, just on a different level from everyone else no-gi.

Wish he would compete in the gi too, but to each their own, and I get why he doesn't with how different the sports of BJJ and submission grappling are becoming. I think calling him the "greatest grappler" is a bit of a stretch though, given how thin and new of a sport submission grappling is, looking at all the great wrestlers/judokas and even jujietseiros (sp?) out there makes it a bit tough to compare
 
hes great - but he outweighs robert by a lot and could submitted him with whatever he wanted...i still say buchecha is and their match was lame, i think gordon won cause buchecha got a negative

i dont get why he wont fight pena, and only wants it in his ruleset...pena is the the only guy to own him, and pena beat him twice - now gordon would probably win now but i woudl take whatever rules pena wanted and whatever amoutn (hes rich, right), just to get a win against him and shutup that legion of fans
 
I'm not the biggest fan of Ryan but his talent is undeniable. I thought this was some sort of a drilling/technique video when I saw it the first time, only to realize it was a live match - he's that smooth and technical, just on a different level from everyone else no-gi.

What was so great about the video? Looked like a regular belly down armbar transition?
 
What was so great about the video? Looked like a regular belly down armbar transition?
IDK it was just really smooth and slick how he did it, and with such total control. Just didn't look like a guy doing it in a live match, looked like he was drilling or doing a technique demo almost. Maybe he really does train that much more than everyone else like he says.
 
I'll never understand how anyone thinks it's not Marcelo. If he was Roger's size he would have never lost to anyone, imo. But you have to at least go with Roger if not Marcelo.

I say Marcelo not just because he was the best pound for pound, but because he never juiced... or if he did it never did anything for his physicality.
Imagine taking a steroid that helps with strength and recovery. Emphasis on recovery. Imagine never lifting weights with it and only doing bjj non stop every day.
 
Marcelos style seems to get more and more dependent on speed as he ages... at least in his vids
 
Marcelos style seems to get more and more dependent on speed as he ages... at least in his vids
To be fair there’s almost nothing to watch in recent years. Marcelo stopped uploading new rolls onto his website in 2017. Since then, FloGrappling released a roll of him with one of their brown belts 2 years ago, and Marcelo uploaded a roll just last month with Paul Schreiner. The former is behind a paywall but the roll with Paul is below. I didn’t notice a much more speed than usual.

I do think Marcelo has always been an explosive grappler. I don’t think of him as “fast” in the way I think of some of his peers as fast. I think Marcelo described himself well in saying that when he makes a decision to go for a movement he commits 100% of his effort and intention into it, with zero hesitation.

Anyways here’s the most recent rolling footage we have of Marcelo.
 
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I'll never understand how anyone thinks it's not Marcelo. If he was Roger's size he would have never lost to anyone, imo. But you have to at least go with Roger if not Marcelo.

I say Marcelo not just because he was the best pound for pound, but because he never juiced... or if he did it never did anything for his physicality.
I agree. I do think the Roger comparison isn’t 1 to 1 because I don’t think anyone built like Roger could even have Marcelo’s game to begin with. But I still agree.

I also put a heavy premium on creativity. I think the fact that Marcelo was innovating so heavily on his own during his prime athletic years adds a lot to how special a competitor he was. He was also the first competitor with the balls to put all his lessons and his rolls online, and let his opponents study him as much as they wanted to.

After launching his website and uploading daily content, he still went on to win his final 3 tournaments (2 Mundials and 1 ADCC) and I don’t even think he conceded a point in any of them. In his final tournament ever (ADCC) he subbed 3/4 opponents and also won prize money for the fastest sub of the entire tournament.
 
IDK it was just really smooth and slick how he did it, and with such total control. Just didn't look like a guy doing it in a live match, looked like he was drilling or doing a technique demo almost. Maybe he really does train that much more than everyone else like he says.
Gordon definitely trains a ton. His schedule a few years ago was crazy. He was getting up at 5am or so and training 2x a day (not counting open mat/shop talk/lifting weights) in Manhattan and then also teaching and rolling back in New Jersey during the same evenings.

I’ve rolled with him a couple times and at one seminar he rolled for maybe 80-90 mins straight with no breaks. It was mostly an event for upper belts and he had just done a big competition a few days prior. I don’t even know if anyone expected him to do much rolling. But he did. He didn’t sit out any rounds and he was the last person off the mat.
 
hes great - but he outweighs robert by a lot and could submitted him with whatever he wanted...i still say buchecha is and their match was lame, i think gordon won cause buchecha got a negative

i dont get why he wont fight pena, and only wants it in his ruleset...pena is the the only guy to own him, and pena beat him twice - now gordon would probably win now but i woudl take whatever rules pena wanted and whatever amoutn (hes rich, right), just to get a win against him and shutup that legion of fans
Cliff notes from a recent video and post. Gordon said that he finds Pena difficult to negotiate contracts with and that he’s not wanting to put in the effort to make it happen unless they meet at ADCC. He feels that he’s on a 50+ match win-streak and that Pena looked disappointing against Galvao last ADCC and only has a handful of total no-gi matches anywhere since 2017.

He admits Pena bested him twice but that everyone knows he’s grown a lot while Pena hasn’t looked as sharp. He’d like to face Pena again but doesn’t want to have to navigate all the red tape just to make it happen anymore. He said he thinks he’s proven he’s the top dog and that the best guys should be hungry to try to beat him these days.
 
To be fair there’s almost nothing to watch in recent years. Marcelo stopped uploading new rolls onto his website in 2017. Since then, FloGrappling released a roll of him with one of their brown belts 2 years ago, and Marcelo uploaded a roll just last month with Paul Schreiner. The former is behind a paywall but the roll with Paul is below. I didn’t notice a much more speed than usual.

I do think Marcelo has always been an explosive grappler. I don’t think of him as “fast” in the way I think of some of his peers as fast. I think Marcelo described himself well in saying that when he makes a decision to go for a movement he commits 100% of his effort and intention into it, with zero hesitation.

Anyways here’s the most recent rolling footage we have of Marcelo.

So weird watching Marcelo age.

So weird watching myself age. Dang. Existential crisis here
 
If Marcelo was on anything other than epo it would have shown up in his physique. All steroids enhance muscle building, even if that is not the primary mechanism it is designed for, AND, all steroid cycles have to use test as a base so there would have been some indicator of use, imo.
People have been caught on steroids looking like they not only dont lift but dont even do a sport.
 
I've been around a lot of juicers who were using different stuff for a lot of reasons and I have never come across one single example of what you are saying here, without any examples or evidence to back up your comment btw.

And remember, we are talking about elite, international level athletes, specifically grappling competitors, so no, Marcelo has never shown any physical signs of juicing and it would have shown at some point given the physical demands of grappling, but it never did.
Asthetics depends on your diet, genetics and training... you don’t take testosterone and look like a pro body builder just dor the sake of it.. Jesus most gym rats you see in the gym are using something and still look like shit... elite athletes? Josh Barnett Tim Sylvia just a couple since we are in a Mma forum... you won’t look good if you don’t diet.
 
Those two guys are interesting conversation pieces, since if you look at their physiques you can say they could be using or they might not be and are just that big, because yes, both obviously used and both looked like shit, although Barnett is a result mostly of odd fat depositing by his body and a classic case of too much estrogen crossover (bitch tits he had removed which is why his pecks look so weird), Sylvia just looked like shit in general. But you could say maybe even if they hadn't been caught.

The giveaway for guys like that is the face. That bloated roid face-that Gordon so clearly has-is what tells you Sylvia and Barnett were using. There is also the classic growing of a beard to cover up the bloat face and the post-career fattening up that is way out of proportion even with the reduced activity levels taken into account (Sylvia is a good example of this).

I never saw Marcelo with any bloat, suddenly working a beard for years, odd physique attributes like obvious surgery on his pecs, or any fattening up when he stopped competing.

And both Barnett and Sylvia had pretty typical personalities for fighters and maybe that's just who they are and wasn't the juice, but imo Marcelo would never have been able to show zero signs, physique, face, personality, that he was juicing. You're always going to see it pop up somewhere.

The average gym goer, even the gym rats, are not engaging in physical activity anywhere near the level of ufc/adcc competitors, but even then I've never seen a true gym rat who looked like shit. Maybe the typical chicken legs and big arms, maybe the bloat cause they don't want to cut and lose that precious size they think makes them manly, but never like complete shit. I think you're talking about the trt dudes who have no idea what they are doing in the gym or the kitchen, those guys are pretty common.

Trt dosage has been only popular in the past 10 years or so, gym rats are normally in a shit ton of roids, blasting and cursing all year long, and still look like shit. Most signs you’re saying like bloating are roids dependent. Dht compounds do not cause estrogen related sides, Barnet has looked like shit since always, his genetics just won’t allow him to look good, even if he way talking a trilling mg of anaztrole or letro Ed, he would’ve. Still looked like shit, probably because well, he doesn’t care about asthetics and like I said, genetics. Sylvia has even worst genetics.
 
So weird watching Marcelo age.

So weird watching myself age. Dang. Existential crisis here
Feels. Went through one recently. It’s all good though. Lucky to still be here making laps around the sun. Feel young mentally. A little banged up physically. In some ways it really is a state of mind. Hope you feel good about things soon.
 
I guess I don't go to the gyms where guys are swearing openly while lifting. I haven't been around that since high school gym class, but even the ones I saw who did that shit were almost always really muscular dudes.

And I'm not an expert on human hormone use/side effect, etc., but I've had enough friends who were and used to have been told that when in excess of normal bodily needs testosterone (the base of all steroid cycles) and all other anabolics/androgenics convert to estradiol, an estrogen like substance that can cause excess breast tissue formation. I usually believe people who are serious users of any drug about what that drug does since they usually have to know wtf they are doing if they are serious users. If that's not why juicers get bitch tits then idk why it happens, but it obviously happens and Barnett had them so something is doing this to these guys who juice. Yes, excess breast tissue can happen naturally in men but the formation is much slower and looks different, as the whole body suffers from a lack of male hormones and you end up with stay puff marshmallow looking dudes, not muscular dudes with breasts.

But all I've been saying is Marcelo never juiced, which I firmly believe, and neither Sylvia or Barnett as examples of shitty looking juicers changes my mind in the least as I can see the signs of use in one form or another. I've never seen one sign Marcelo used.

well, your wrong, dht compounds do not convert to estrogen.

No reason to discuss further since you are not well informed about steroids, I’ve been on trt for the past 5 years, and into the roids/Bb thing for the past 15...

I don’t know if I agree with you, I don’t think marcelo juiced for any grappling competition, but in his Mma fight, If I had to give an eye guess, he did
 
Edit: Okay, I thought when you said dht compounds you were talking about all steroids but now that I've edumacated myself on that my question to you is why did you bring up dht compounds? What does that have to do with what was being talked about?

I also was talking about test in every one of my posts so why did you continue to harp on the dht thing and not note that test is not a dht compound? Seems like you just wanted to throw in an irrelevant subject and I'm not sure why. Either way if you're cycling properly you're on an excess amount of test, hence the bitch tits in some folks, which you know so idk what this was all about on your end.

Glad we agree on Marcelo though

I never saw that you were talking exclusively about test... people get bitch tits because they don’t want to ir can’t use AIs. You were talking about guys showing roids sides, mostly estrogenics, back in the day, stanazolol was a pretty widely used steroid for performance enhancer. That’s why I brought up dht compunds.
 
Roger that, went right over my head because I didn't understand the differences among the types of juice.

So my question for you now would be, why do grappling athletes get bloat face? Why don't they use use dht compounds with as much of a test base as needed to keep that in their system? I'm assuming bloat face is from the aromatization of the test base, but why do they go in excess of what is needed to keep it in the blood and go overboard and make it obvious that's what they are doing.

Why? Cause they use test as a ped, people think you need to use huge ammont of roids to get better athletic results, grapplers do not need this, some dht compounds have nasty sides, stanozolol for example fucks your joints up, many people rather stay away from it, baldness and prostate issues are common, still there’s really no reason for an athlete to use more than test if you are looking to enhance your performance, it’s safer cheaper and easier to mask, also, while keeping just one type of roid its easier to time it and to get away with drug tests. Even if your using some ai, you don’t want to kill all your estrogen/a, so some convertíon is needed, some will ballon up, some won’t that much, depends on the individual... testosterone is the best performance enhancer... with epo and such, Low doses is the way to go for a grappler, unless your looking to Sumo people a la Galvao...
 
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