Heated Twitter exchange between Valtellini & Malignaggi about sparring.

The problem is a lot of MMA gyms are not devoting the time to non sparring defense instruction. I know I didn't That is why I quit. I just got tossed to the fucking wolves. Most of the shit I learned came for the fucking internet. And when I read about training schedules at other gyms all I see is the same shit. NO time given to non sparring defense instruction.

My gym is very defense-heavy but I suppose that may be because it was founded as a Krav Maga school and the first thing you learn in Krav Maga is to always be aware of an exit to run away!

My boxing instructor spends a lot of time on defense. Even our warm-up is defense oriented as he has ropes strung at should-height from corner to corner of the ring and we have to shadowbox while ducking the ropes. He also walks around with a foam "noodle" and will hit us randomly if we're doing bag work and we drop our hands. Then with the pad work every combination contains at least one defensive move, often an initial slip and maybe a duck in the middle (for example: slip-1-2-3-duck-2). Then we do partner exercises where one guy is purely defensive and has to read whether to block low or high (and we're allowed to choose whether high block can be slip instead). Then we do light sparring and one guy has to be purely defense which results in practicing moving out of range in the ring or else being up against the ropes doing the Mohammed Ali thing. Only after that do we do our free sparring. What I just described is our standard two hour session (usually some skipping before and some roadwork after).

Now that I write it all out, I can say that actually my instructor is actually quite focussed on defense.
 
My gym is very defense-heavy but I suppose that may be because it was founded as a Krav Maga school and the first thing you learn in Krav Maga is to always be aware of an exit to run away!

My boxing instructor spends a lot of time on defense. Even our warm-up is defense oriented as he has ropes strung at should-height from corner to corner of the ring and we have to shadowbox while ducking the ropes. He also walks around with a foam "noodle" and will hit us randomly if we're doing bag work and we drop our hands. Then with the pad work every combination contains at least one defensive move, often an initial slip and maybe a duck in the middle (for example: slip-1-2-3-duck-2). Then we do partner exercises where one guy is purely defensive and has to read whether to block low or high (and we're allowed to choose whether high block can be slip instead). Then we do light sparring and one guy has to be purely defense which results in practicing moving out of range in the ring or else being up against the ropes doing the Mohammed Ali thing. Only after that do we do our free sparring. What I just described is our standard two hour session (usually some skipping before and some roadwork after).

Now that I write it all out, I can say that actually my instructor is actually quite focussed on defense.
Which is how it should be. Sadly for the two places I trained in my town, none of them were. At most, we got to work on slipping and ducking as that is a natural part of pad work. Defense training was so undertrained, that at one point the competitive fighters were sparring and he made the joke that they were practicing taking punches with their face..
 
I personally think that they are both right and the optimal approach is somewhere in the middle.

HEAVY SPARRING
Pros: Gain confidence, improve ability to fight well whilst tired, more realistic to a fight.
Cons: Very taxing, can shorten career, can damage chin.

LIGHT SPARRING
Pros: Can work on new things better as there is less risk, can do it more often, easy on the body.
Cons: Doesn't prepare you mentally, what works in a light sparring session may not really work in a full on fight, light sparring doesn't fatigue you which means you don't get comfortable with fighting in a fatigued state.
 
...

If safety is a concern - it's better not to engage in the sport because unfortunately it's not safe.You can put all your effort into reducing risk & being safe in training but if you are in a grueling fight or get dinked on the head enough - it all goes out the window.

...

an all-or-nothing position is silly though...

it is illogical to say that because safety is someone's concern, that 100% safety (by not participating) is the way to go.

it is also illogical to take the position that because there is risk inside the ring, there is no point in taking steps to reduce it outside the ring.

it still makes sense to reduce your risk of suffering an injury while engaging in what is risky behaviour regardless, especially as we learn more over time.

hockey and football players wear helmets and pads, fighters wrap their hands, etc. because we saw fit to incorporate more safety as we learned more about injury prevention, health, the sport evolving, etc...but taking steps in training to reduce the risk of injury is not useful?

why should boxers not spar "all out" on a regular basis? because science is suggesting that the repetitiveness of being hit in the head is linked to future brain trauma. So why not it REDUCE the risk of future harm, while still engaging in that risky behaviour, even if you can't reduce that risk to zero?

yes, there is a point to be made that practising defense while sparring will help you once you are in an actual fight in the ring. one could indeed argue that by NOT sparring 'all out' on a regular basis, you won't develop the same defense.

That could indeed be a valid counter point...but, like many complex issues, each decision carries pros and cons. It seems that many fighters are choosing to forgo whatever benefits they may get from sparring 'all out' in exchange for the likely benefits they will receive by not enduring dozens (or hundreds) of rounds of getting hit in the head during practise.
 
I think it's mostly a question of differing cultures (though in absolute terms I think Joe is more right than Pauli). Boxing has always sparred very hard, of course they're going to justify it however they can. Kickboxing is heavily influenced by Muay Thai where hard sparring really isn't necessary since you fight so often, even if most KBers themselves don't fight nearly as often as Thais.

Personally, I think it's important to spar hard, but you really don't need to do that much of it. To fight you need to be in good shape and have your timing on point, and you have to have done enough hard sparring to not be put off your game the first time you take a hard shot. For most people, especially if they're experienced fighters who have been in the ring quite a bit, that's only going to be 3-4 sessions in an 8 week camp. It doesn't take much hard sparring before the negatives outweigh the benefits + risks of doing it. As Joe correctly noted your brain doesn't heal like a muscle and every time you get concussed, even if it's minor, you become more susceptible to future concussions. Even given how much the question frames what we do as really stupid, do you want to spend those precious shots you can take in the gym, or in the ring?
 
Is not sparring hard a North American kickboxing thing? From what I've seen the Dutch spar as hard as boxers if not harder.
 
I personally think that they are both right and the optimal approach is somewhere in the middle.

HEAVY SPARRING
Pros: Gain confidence, improve ability to fight well whilst tired, more realistic to a fight.
Cons: Very taxing, can shorten career, can damage chin.

LIGHT SPARRING
Pros: Can work on new things better as there is less risk, can do it more often, easy on the body.
Cons: Doesn't prepare you mentally, what works in a light sparring session may not really work in a full on fight, light sparring doesn't fatigue you which means you don't get comfortable with fighting in a fatigued state.
Con: think your punches are more effective than they actually are, start sparring hard and you can be very disappointed at someone walking straight through your best shots.
 
Is not sparring hard a North American kickboxing thing? From what I've seen the Dutch spar as hard as boxers if not harder.
It's a Muay Thai (i.e. real Muay Thai from Thailand, not kickboxing or dutch) thing mostly, from my experience.

Also a lot of Dutch gyms will go easier on the head, but smash the body/legs with bodyshots, lowkicks etc. That tends to be the norm. I don't recall seeing boxing sparring that was very hard in Holland. Could be wrong. Maybe Mike's gym.
 
Gotta side with bazooka joe on this one. Obviously there is an important place for sparring, but you and your training partners aren't doing each other any good beating the crap out of each other in training

Well if he is right and he IS the pro boxer here you are not, then it IS the better way to do things, if the pro boxers are all doing this is HAS to be, I noticed Tyson didnt hold back on sparring partners, nor they him. If thats what theya re doing at the highest level of a very competitive sport then holding back during sparring is ineffective unrealistic training
 
I like medium-hard (60-70%), full-speed the best. By the very nature of it, sometimes it just WILL ramp up all the way to 100% or close to it, so you get the full effect/dynamic but it doesn't stay there so you don't have to take all that unnecessarily exponential cumulative damage of being constantly in that.

Also, in a fight/competition, most good competitors will not be swinging 100% the full time, that would wear them out. The good ones usually go at somewhere between 40-70% for most of the time and only go full when they have the other guy broken down and in the bag. So medium-hard sparring at full speed is realistic as well.

I think light sparring is great, though, as long as that's not all you've ever done. It's very underestimated in usefulness just like shadowboxing is. If you have experience and you're smart I think it can work as your main sparring, unless your fighting style is not in the upper tier of efficient/smart. If you've had fights and done well (and are a sharp learner), those can work in place of hard sparring.

From what I've seen, not all the best champions have trained the same way or level of intensity when sparring. It's a personal thing, and I'm all for that.
 
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I like medium-hard (60-70%), full-speed the best. By the very nature of it, sometimes it just WILL ramp up all the way to 100% or close to it, so you get the full effect/dynamic but it doesn't stay there so you don't have to take all that unnecessarily exponential cumulative damage of being constantly in that.

Also, in a fight/competition, most good competitors will not be swinging 100% the full time, that would wear them out. The good ones usually go at somewhere between 40-70% for most of the time and only go full when they have the other guy broken down and in the bag. So medium-hard sparring at full speed is realistic as well.

I think light sparring is great, though, as long as that's not all you've ever done. It's very underestimated in usefulness just like shadowboxing is. If you have experience and you're smart I think it can work as your main sparring, unless your fighting style is not in the upper tier of efficient/smart. If you've had fights and done well (and are a sharp learner), those can work in place of hard sparring.

From what I've seen, not all the best champions have trained the same way or level of intensity when sparring. It's a personal thing, and I'm all for that.


It seems the best training is 100% sparring or real fights, but that is a short term gain long term pain, because you go chinny if you take too much damage.

The best bet is to choose light hitting sparring partners then u both go 100%
 
Exactly wtf? And good boxers only spar cans who can take a shot. In mma/kickboxing/MT you can get away with only going hard once in a while. I don't think you can do that in boxing when the only thing you can throw is your hands... apples and oranges arguing with each other.

The distance in boxing compared to all sports with kicking is completely different as well. You spar hard with kicks and your body is not gonna respond after a couple weeks of that.

I kind of wonder if “reflexes” are more important in boxing.

Hard to say if it’s done that way in boxing due to macho folly or if it’s necessary graft to be successful in that sport.
 


It goes on for a little bit more, but I got tired. Yes I'm bored today.

So what are your opinions? Who's right? Or are boxing and kickboxing/MuayThai sparring just different?

I can see some of the benefits of going pretty hard with headgear and 16oz gloves punching only, but I know personally if I went 100% clashing shins, knees or god forbid elbows all the time, I'd be crippled in bed half of the training camp lol.


Actually I think both have a point. Its really about a lot of factors. For example if you only fight 2/3 times a year you need that fire in sparring before a fight. Contrary in MT were they fight each week or every 2 weeks all they need is technical light sparring. Its not just good /bad but depends on the camp...etc.
 
I kind of wonder if “reflexes” are more important in boxing.

Hard to say if it’s done that way in boxing due to macho folly or if it’s necessary graft to be successful in that sport.
It’s 100% necessary in boxing imo.
I don’t think anyone would argue against speed and reflexes being more important in boxing too.

Youre literally only punching the head and body. There’s not a lot of light technical things you can do in sparring lol. Not to mention punching the head lightly in sparring is super lame lol. When you punch the head light in kickboxing at least you get to add knees and kicks.

You necroed the shit outta this thread lol
 
The age old question hard, vs light sparring.

Personally I think 75%+ of sparring should be light. Even 25% I think is a bit high, but hopefully that will help placate those who lean more towards hard sparring.
 
I’m with bazooka Joe on this one
Yeah, I think this is a case where it's not really a matter of debate. There is a right answer to this. Maybe it was a debate a while ago but it's not anymore.

It's all well and good Paulie Malignaggi saying they should be hard sparring all the time, but Bazooka Joe's jabs are harder than anything Paulie has ever thrown. He can't break eggs with his punches, so no one is in danger sparring from him.

If we stopped thinking light sparring as pitter patter, and instead made sure people were sparring with a solid connection, but a more controlled pace and lighter contact to the head, maybe we wouldn't keep having these arguments
 
Yeah, I think this is a case where it's not really a matter of debate. There is a right answer to this. Maybe it was a debate a while ago but it's not anymore.

It's all well and good Paulie Malignaggi saying they should be hard sparring all the time, but Bazooka Joe's jabs are harder than anything Paulie has ever thrown. He can't break eggs with his punches, so no one is in danger sparring from him.

If we stopped thinking light sparring as pitter patter, and instead made sure people were sparring with a solid connection, but a more controlled pace and lighter contact to the head, maybe we wouldn't keep having these arguments
Agree. I’m still trying to avoid someone’s punches when we spar might because they can still pop my head back, but no ones trying for KO’s
 
Agree. I’m still trying to avoid someone’s punches when we spar might because they can still pop my head back, but no ones trying for KO’s

Yeah of course, getting hit on the nose hurts regardless of the power, you don't need to be dropping bungalows on each other
 
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