Help with research

[JohnPJones]

Ok ya nerds, I need some help.

move been looking up stuff about Robert trias.
‘The first Caucasian to open a karate school in US’
The research I’ve done indicates he might be a big part of why karate was such trash in the US for so long.

it seems he train Kung fu with some shuri-te karate thrown in, for no more than 1 year ‘44-‘45 then opened a school in AZ in 45 or 46, and founded USKA in 48…

so he train ‘karate’ for a year and began teaching and then created a whole organization within 2 years of that…

can anyone else find the more info?

 

[RabbitPunch36]

I wished I could help you out directly but maybe @Azam or @Hotora86 might know something about this.

 

[Madmogwai]

This is unfortunately not uncommon

 

[shincheckin]

Ok ya nerds, I need some help.

move been looking up stuff about Robert trias.
‘The first Caucasian to open a karate school in US’
The research I’ve done indicates he might be a big part of why karate was such trash in the US for so long.

it seems he train Kung fu with some shuri-te karate thrown in, for no more than 1 year ‘44-‘45 then opened a school in AZ in 45 or 46, and founded USKA in 48…

so he train ‘karate’ for a year and began teaching and then created a whole organization within 2 years of that…

can anyone else find the more info?

Trains karate for a year, opens a gym, starts coaching, and creates the largest karate organization in the US.

I find this interesting.

 

[NoSmilez]

I think a lot of these old school TMA guys are like that but they probably train all day though. I think there is a lot of book learning during that time. There isn't a real curriculum. You see weird TMA dudes with 10 different black belts. They are all sort of like that. The training is real short in amount of time. They write letters to people asking to train and they live with them for a short time. They might go back once in a while to brush up.

I think current Japanese standard is 3 years minimum for a black belt. The black belt ranking is sort of still "advanced" beginner. There is an old school K1 fighter Nicholas Pettas that went to Japan and did a 1000 day apprenticeship with Mas Oyama . He ended up winning the Japan GP. I think it's even shorter in Korea. You can get a black belt in a year or two in TKD.

 

[JohnPJones]

I think a lot of these old school TMA guys are like that but they probably train all day though. I think there is a lot of book learning during that time. There isn't a real curriculum. You see weird TMA dudes with 10 different black belts. They are all sort of like that. The training is real short in amount of time. They write letters to people asking to train and they live with them for a short time. They might go back once in a while to brush up.

I think current Japanese standard is 3 years minimum for a black belt. The black belt ranking is sort of still "advanced" beginner. There is an old school K1 fighter Nicholas Pettas that went to Japan and did a 1000 day apprenticeship with Mas Oyama . He ended up winning the Japan GP. I think it's even shorter in Korea. You can get a black belt in a year or two in TKD.

The navy doesn’t let you spend all day on your hobbies.

 

[NoSmilez]

The navy doesn’t let you spend all day on your hobbies.

I don't know this guy's particular occupation. I am just speaking in general terms with TMA in that region. Black belt is suppose to be a person who is still a beginner who knows how to execute some of the techniques. Black belt isn't like master or superman in the US.

 

[JohnPJones]

I don't know this guy's particular occupation. I am just speaking in general terms with TMA in that region. Black belt is suppose to be a person who is still a beginner who knows how to execute some of the techniques. Black belt isn't like master or superman in the US.

He spent a year training while in the navy during WWII. So I don’t even know how much time he was able to dedicate to training per day.

 

[NoSmilez]

He spent a year training while in the navy during WWII. So I don’t even know how much time he was able to dedicate to training per day.

Ok I just took a look at this guy. He was in the Navy reserves on a military base in Papa New Guinea. It isn't the front line. He worked as a metal worker. The base seems to be super small with 20 people. The length of stay is jenky. Wikipedia has it around 16 months at a later time. His biography has him getting getting the black belt in a year. Total training time can be long as 3 years depending on which biography's timeline.

The accounts aren't really accurate and there are several revisions in his biography. I think he should just be credited for creating the first federation that brought other schools in an umbrella in the 60s. He didn't teach those other people. He just brought them together. I just took a look at his kata for shits and giggles. It doesn't look like karate but I don't really have real experience with it. He did have some communication with other Japanese practitioners on the mainland.

Karate on the mainland is new too. I think first school was in the late 20s or early 30s. Personally I just think everyone was faking the funk until they got good at the art. The damn gi is taken from Judo. Apparently Korean TKD is just karate too. Sorry I went down a weird rabbit hole while drinking coffee.

 

[JohnPJones]

Ok I just took a look at this guy. He was in the Navy reserves on a military base in Papa New Guinea. It isn't the front line. He worked as a metal worker. The base seems to be super small with 20 people. The length of stay is jenky. Wikipedia has it around 16 months at a later time. His biography has him getting getting the black belt in a year. Total training time can be long as 3 years depending on which biography's timeline.

The accounts aren't really accurate and there are several revisions in his biography. I think he should just be credited for creating the first federation that brought other schools in an umbrella in the 60s. He didn't teach those other people. He just brought them together. I just took a look at his kata for shits and giggles. It doesn't look like karate but I don't really have real experience with it. He did have some communication with other Japanese practitioners on the mainland.

Karate on the mainland is new too. I think first school was in the late 20s or early 30s. Personally I just think everyone was faking the funk until they got good at the art. The damn gi is taken from Judo. Apparently Korean TKD is just karate too. Sorry I went down a weird rabbit hole while drinking coffee.

Yes modern karate is only roughly 100yrs old.
TKD has roots older than karate, but I believe most of the way it’s been trained the last…30-40 years makes basically shotokan with fewer punches.

 

[SandisLL]

Yes modern karate is only roughly 100yrs old.
TKD has roots older than karate, but I believe most of the way it’s been trained the last…30-40 years makes basically shotokan with fewer punches.

Okinawian stuff is very old.
In Japan...JJJ and their local grappling stuff ofc was long before this karate....


Also from training time in years really is difficult to judge.
Some maybe had morning class and evening class each day and had a lot of free time to train ....
Some maybe had 2-3 sessions per 1 week...

While Imho even in the same TKD BB to get in 3 years is....damn difficult.
Okey, that's from my opinion cos TKD stuff in some areas is strictly sport competitions oriented...

 

[SandisLL]

The scoring ofc heavily impacts ....training and approach to TKD.
While I had saw nice demos even for close range fight ... ( aka grandmaster Donato Nardizzi some videos )..
In compet they more use long range kicks and punches....we all had saw WTF and ITF competitions ....

 

[DoctorTaco]

Yes modern karate is only roughly 100yrs old.
TKD has roots older than karate, but I believe most of the way it’s been trained the last…30-40 years makes basically shotokan with fewer punches.

i believe TKD was invented to knock riders from their horses and I’ll argue this point to the death!

 

[NoSmilez]

i believe TKD was invented to knock riders from their horses and I’ll argue this point to the death!

I think what they call TKD now is started out by people who were trained in Japanese karate or Chinese kung fu. They have their own indigenous martial arts but it doesn't really exist anymore because they were colonized by the Japanese for quite a long time. TKD isn't really related to the indigenous martial art though they try to link it together for national pride.

I feel that these modern striking martial arts are just renaming what they learned and trying to make it fit with their national pride/history. Even MT is like that. The neighboring countries all swear they are the real originators.

 

[JohnPJones]

i believe TKD was invented to knock riders from their horses and I’ll argue this point to the death!

I’d love to see some trying knocking a scarecrow velcroed to a trotting horse off, let alone a person actually holding on, and the horse actually moving and stomping around let alone possibly charging.

 

[DoctorTaco]

I’d love to see some trying knocking a scarecrow velcroed to a trotting horse off, let alone a person actually holding on, and the horse actually moving and stomping around let alone possibly charging.

i grew up around horses and that makes what I said my absolute favorite mcdojo myth.

 

[JohnPJones]

i grew up around horses and that makes what I said my absolute favorite mcdojo myth.

I went to horse camp once. Certified expert horser

but seriously, jousting didn’t even reliably dehorse a rider but these retards think that someone was out there just kicking people off of horses

 

[SandisLL]

I think what they call TKD now is started out by people who were trained in Japanese karate or Chinese kung fu. They have their own indigenous martial arts but it doesn't really exist anymore because they were colonized by the Japanese for quite a long time. TKD isn't really related to the indigenous martial art though they try to link it together for national pride.

I feel that these modern striking martial arts are just renaming what they learned and trying to make it fit with their national pride/history. Even MT is like that. The neighboring countries all swear they are the real originators.

Modern TKD is heavily influenced by....scoring rules.
High kicks, long distance punches, punch in jump.

For me liked stuff from Gandmaster Donato Nardizzi.
More realistic etc.

 

[Azam]

I was under the impression that Ed Parker was one of the guys to first popularize Karate in the US - maybe you are referring to him.

There was a lot of fake shittery going on at that time IMO - dudes who were saying they were legit who had questionable lineages/experience - imo Ed Parker was one of them where you go hmmmm?

 

[NoSmilez]

I was under the impression that Ed Parker was one of the guys to first popularize Karate in the US - maybe you are referring to him.

There was a lot of fake shittery going on at that time IMO - dudes who were saying they were legit who had questionable lineages/experience - imo Ed Parker was one of them where you go hmmmm?

I took a look at him. He comes later in the 50s? There is another fellow by the name of Peter Urban. He apparently has real Japanese lineage from doing an apprenticeship in the 50s but he is kind of a weirdo or something. He is also one of those marine guys who trained with Japanese people but for 5 years. He ended up with a 5th degree black belt. I don't really know much about Karate but I probably figured that it was so new that it was easy to get black belts.