How good is Mackenzie Dern compared to a male BJJ guy?

JustOnce

JustOnce

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So apparently Dern's BJJ is as good as we saw in WMMA so far.

I'm just curious how good her BJJ is relative to guys. Now in wrestling, if someone's wrestling is as good as some people are saying her BJJ is, she's not going to beat someone in her own weight class someone ranked nationally, let alone internationally. I'm not sure if she would beat someone who wrestled in college in her same weight class either. Because at the end of the day, I just don't see her fairing well, as in someone with wrestling hypothetically as good as Dern's BJJ is supposed to be.

So, the question is, at which level do you think Dern would be competitive with guys in BJJ competition?
 
Does she have fantastic BJJ? Yes. She's one of my favorite competitors of any division. All offense, all the time.

Could she submit some male black belts? Sure. Would she be competitive at a major tournament in the men's black belt division? No. Would she be competitive at purple? Maybe. Probably not at Worlds.

This is without any disrespect to Dern, but physiology just matters a lot and these days you have well-conditioned athletes at every level. I imagine the analogy to wrestling is fair, although in the gi the person with superior technique can neutralize more physicality than without.
 
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EGDM said:
Does she have fantastic BJJ? Yes. She's one of my favorite competitors of any division. All offense, all the time.

Could she submit some male black belts? Sure. Would she be competitive at a major tournament in the men's black belt division? No. Would she be competitive at purple? Maybe. Probably not at Worlds.

This is without any disrespect to Dern, but physiology just matters a lot and these days you have well-conditioned athletes at every level. I imagine the analogy to wrestling is fair, although in the gi the person with superior technique can neutralize more physicality than without.
Click to expand...
Yes, physiology matters and you are still way overestimating Dern and any wmma fighter or grappler.
She would get smoked by plenty of high school wrestlers if they had a bit of know how and even plenty of big untrained guys even if they got even a bit of knowledge.

I posted this vid before and it was moved to fantasy forum.


Tara Larosa
Credentials:
ADCC silver at openweight and 60 kg
Multiple time FILA and NAGA world grappling Gold medalist
Former Bodog bantamweight champ

Vs
Untrained dude whose watched some jiujitsu on YouTube

So she has very similar grappling credentials to Dern and has won gold at the highest levels also.
They edit out 2 mins at 7:55 with him in back control which was taken without much difficulty.
He 'loses' after gassing after about 4 minutes which is not surprising being untrained.

In short wmma has come along way and is great as is competive female Judo and Jitjitsu. The skill level has gotten much better.
But it's still against other women. Strength is a big factor even at the same weight between genders. So these comparisons are quite silly alot of the time.
 
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TheMaster said:
Yes, physiology matters and you are still way overestimating Dern and any wmma fighter or grappler.
She would get smoked by plenty of high school wrestlers if they had a bit of know how and even plenty of big untrained guys even if they got even a bit of knowledge.

I posted this vid before and it was moved to fantasy forum.


Tara Larosa
Credentials:
ADCC silver at openweight and 60 kg
Multiple time FILA and NAGA world grappling Gold medalist
Former Bodog bantamweight champ

Vs
Untrained dude whose watched some jiujitsu on YouTube

So she has very similar grappling credentials to Dern and has won gold at the highest levels also.
They edit out 2 mins at 7:55 with him in back control which was taken without much difficulty.
He 'loses' after gassing after about 4 minutes which is not surprising being untrained.

In short wmma has come along way and is great as is competive female Judo and Jitjitsu. The skill level has gotten much better.
But it's still against other women. Strength is a big factor even at the same weight between genders. So these comparisons are quite silly alot of the time.
Click to expand...


my guess is you have never grapple an elite woman grappler
 
EGDM said:
I have. Gabi and Luanna Alzuguir.
Click to expand...

What's Gabi like to grapple with? She seems like she has no technique at all, but it would be interesting to see what her non comp game is like.
The video with Dern above makes it just look like she tries to smash and force everything, but i think that might have just been a comp game plan mistake.
It's worked for her for ages and she is obviously a physically powerful female athlete, but you don't get a black belt generally if you can't do technical bjj.
 
maximus__ said:
What's Gabi like to grapple with?
Click to expand...

Gabi was very pleasant, but the roll was essentially exactly what you'd expect. This was ~2010 and I was a 175 lbs hobbyist blue belt. I spent a lot of time in bottom side control eating shoulder.
 
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BJJ_Rage said:
my guess is you have never grapple an elite woman grappler
Click to expand...
No, I have not but I have sometimes grappled with women and the strength difference was generally almost like rolling with a child.
I don't see a woman even high level over coming that unless their built like Gabby Garcia.

The vid I posted of an untrained guy manhandling and controlling an elite world champion female grappler like a child for the first few minutes does nothing to change my opinion...

I agree though with gi they would have a bit more of a chance
 
You could use this as another example. Brown belt Dern against a comedian who used to train judo, not trying very hard in BJJ rules.
 
ussf18e said:
I have and do. If you are an athletic male by blue belt no female should be able to beat you. If they do you suck.
Click to expand...

If you are an athletic blue with 50 pounds more ñ, yeah, I’m pretty damn sure bea will grapple fuck most blue belts of her own siZe
 
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