Opinion How to pay for Medicare 4 all

skysolo said:
Your argument for keeping it the same is falling on deaf ears. 30 million people with no healthcare. Another 50 million with inadequate healthcare in the richest country to ever exist.

I looked up your numbers. 81% aren't required to have additional insurance. They have additional insurance thru their work, petitions, or some type of Medicare or Medicaid drug prescription. This is not the same as required. They are in a private Medicare advantage plan. You overstated it to make a point.

Medicare is a federal program, covering more than 61 million seniors and disabled Americans throughout the country. Medicare beneficiaries in most areas have the option to get their coverage via private Medicare Advantage plans, and a little more than a third do so.

The other two-thirds have Original Medicare, but 81 percent of those enrollees supplement their coverage with employer-sponsored coverage, Medigap, or Medicaid. And more than 25 million Medicare beneficiaries also purchase stand-alone Medicare Part D Prescription drug coverage, since Original Medicare (and some Medicare Advantage plans) does not cover outpatient drug costs.

There is significant variation from one state to another in terms of availability, pricing, and regulation of private Medicare plans, and Medicare beneficiaries in different areas often make different choices about their coverage.
Source: https://www.medicareresources.org/states/

The VA doubling it's budget and people not being able to take advantage of it has nothing to do with Medicare. Another misstatement with no source.
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Lol "they don't require it, they have it just for the fuck of it".

I didn't say people aren't able to use the VA, they don't want to because it's shit.
 
nostradumbass said:
Lol "they don't require it, they have it just for the fuck of it".

I didn't say people aren't able to use the VA, they don't want to because it's shit.
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You didn't even bother reading my source. You just want to talk out of your ass.

There are at least 30 million people with no health insurance and at least another 50 million people with inadequate health insurance in the richest country to ever exist. When they can't pay, people with insurance pay more with higher premiums and deductibles and higher costs of hospital and doctor visits, etc.

So you tell me how the current plan is working with 20-30% of the people in the richest country to exist exist having poor health care. Or tell me a better plan.

Why do you guys have every argument in the world against fixing a problem but offer ZERO solutions?
 
kahiljabroni said:
I guess if u say so, anonymous forum doucher
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You clearly don't because you have basic arguments against fixing this issue.

Offer a solution or point to one. Because there is a problem and you want nothing to do with correcting it.
 
skysolo said:
You didn't even bother reading my source. You just want to talk out of your ass.

There are at least 30 million people with no health insurance and at least another 50 million people with inadequate health insurance in the richest country to ever exist. When they can't pay, people with insurance pay more with higher premiums and deductibles and higher costs of hospital and doctor visits, etc.

So you tell me how the current plan is working with 20-30% of the people in the richest country to exist exist having poor health care. Or tell me a better plan.

Why do you guys have every argument in the world against fixing a problem but offer ZERO solutions?
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I did read your source and it didn't disagree with what I said. I don't see how forcing 100% onto poor healthcare is a solution to 20% have poor coverage.

First of all, it's not poor people that don't have medical insurance. Poor people have government coverage. 13% of people making under 25k are uninsured, which is where the illegal immigrants are. 12% of people making 25-50k have are uninsured, 9.8% of people making 50-75k, 7.6% of people making 75-100k, 5.8% of people making 100-125k, and 4.2% of people making over $125K.

Of the less than 9% of the people that are uninsured, almost none are citizens who can't afford it, they are illegals and people who can afford it but choose not to.

I would rather states did it themselves. Bernie's state planned to do it but had to abandon it because it was too expensive, so how is it that it couldn't work in a state of 600,000 with a median income higher than the national median and no illegals, but somehow it'll work if there's 350 million+ infinite illegals?
 
skysolo said:
This really shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.

And your reply has nothing to do with Medicare at all.
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I guess if u say so, anonymous forum douc
skysolo said:
You clearly don't because you have basic arguments against fixing this issue.

Offer a solution or point to one. Because there is a problem and you want nothing to do with correcting it.
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I'm not sure what you're talking about. I illustrated how medicare is currently not handled well as evidence to why our government should not be trusted with the entire industry.

The solution to every problem lies in campaign finance reform, and strict regulations on how our elected officials and their familes can earn outside money, during their tenure and after.
 
 
Cunningham said:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

It sounds great on the surface, but if you look at how he claims he will achieve it, I just can't figure out where the money comes from.

Can anyone explain it?
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I can.
There's this entity called the fairy godmother that has a special magical ability to make money and free shit grow on trees. Bernie is trying to convince the voting public that he can summon the fairy godmother at will and erase all forms of human suffering so we can all live in this fantastic utopia of no work and money raining from the sky.

Reality: there is no answer. He's a full of fucking shit communist that will say and do anything to get elected.

I know you already know all of this and your question is most likely rhetorical, it just amazes me that people actually buy into his horse shit.
 
TheOldMan said:
I can.
There's this entity called the fairy godmother that has a special magical ability to make money and free shit grow on trees. Bernie is trying to convince the voting public that he can summon the fairy godmother at will and erase all forms of human suffering so we can all live in this fantastic utopia of no work and money raining from the sky.

Reality: there is no answer. He's a full of fucking shit communist that will say and do anything to get elected.

I know you already know all of this and your question is most likely rhetorical, it just amazes me that people actually buy into his horse shit.
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No. I'm trying to actually understand it.

Basically it sounds like the idea is to 'cut costs' by just forcing the pharmaceutical and health insurance industries out of business.

Now I have no love for those greedy fucks, but I just am trying to understsnd if that is really the basis of the plan.
 
Cunningham said:
No. I'm trying to actually understand it.

Basically it sounds like the idea is to 'cut costs' by just forcing the pharmaceutical and health insurance industries out of business.

Now I have no love for those greedy fucks, but I just am trying to understsnd if that is really the basis of the plan.
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Honestly I'd like to hear a liberals opinion on this too, because beyond the fairy godmother it sounds like nothing more than pandering to the sheep. I have yet to see anyone describe it with any clarity beyond fantasy.
 
Oliver Clothesoff said:
It was for me. By a mile. Self employed people in the middle class got absolutely FUCKED by Obamacare.

My costs have quadrupled and my decuctibles are $12k for almost no coverage. I basically get to pay for other people's kids to have insurance and my own go without. I basically am paying cash for my entire family. You really think I trust OUR fucked up Govt. to take over the whole thing? Not in this lifetime... :p
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Yeah well way more people are being fucked by the system you like than the few who got fucked from Obamacare. So needs of the many vs needs of the few type of situation.

And people keep comparing this to the VA when it's nothing like the VA. The VA is an entirely government run healthcare program. That includes doctors and hospitals that are VA. Having government funded healthcare insurance doesn't negate private care facilities. It just lowers the cost of insurance for everyone by creating a unified system. Something that literally EVERY other developed nation in the world uses to great benefits of their society.

People keep acting like our healthcare is so wonderful, but I've never seen an international healthcare ranking that puts the United States in the top of the list. All of the leading nations have what people like Sanders are asking for.

And you know who else wanted healthcare for all? Roosevelt. You know, the President that won 4 terms and took us out of the Great Depresson and won WW2. That guy was a fucking socialist to you people.
 
jgarner said:
People keep acting like our healthcare is so wonderful, but I've never seen an international healthcare ranking that puts the United States in the top of the list. All of the leading nations have what people like Sanders are asking for.
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You're almost half as likely to die in a US hospital than you are in England, Australia, or the Netherlands.

https://qualitysafety.bmj.com/content/qhc/24/8/492.full.pdf (page 500)
 
TheOldMan said:
Honestly I'd like to hear a liberals opinion on this too, because beyond the fairy godmother it sounds like nothing more than pandering to the sheep. I have yet to see anyone describe it with any clarity beyond fantasy.
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It's pretty telling that no one has shown up explaining this.
 
Its very simple.

Take the money from people who work (by force) and give it to the people who dont.

70 percent tax on everyone, yeah!!!
Bernie 2020!!!!!!!!!
 
I am your real dad said:
Its very simple.

Take the money from people who work (by force) and give it to the people who dont.

70 percent tax on everyone, yeah!!!
Bernie 2020!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Right. It's easy for us to make fun, but what is the ACTUAL plan?

I have been reading up on this because I thought maybe I was being unfair. So I figured, I will look at this from a politically neutral position and just see if it makes sense.

There's NO information on how he plans to actually do this. The argument is 'the US spends X dollars' per person and other countries spend less. But there's no explanation of how they came to these numbers.

If people are paying for their own health insurance, then 'The US' isn't spending anything...

It seems they are cooking up these stats disingenously by saying any money spent anywhere in the US by anyone is 'the US.'

This doesn't account for the fact that very wealthy people might choose to spend a fortune on health insurance to ensure the best, most comprehensive coverage possible.

So that's not in any way an apples to apples comparison with someone in Canada who just pays whatever taxes the government tells them to and gets the same level of care as everyone else.

The argument being 'The US spends this much and it's going to be cheaper per person to do it Bernie's way' doesn't explain the fundamental question:

Who pays for it? Where does the money actually come from? How much will a family of four living on $70k a year be expected to pay and how much more will a millionaire pay?

And of course, Congress is expempt right? As usual? So that's a massive pool of millionaires getting out of paying their fair share.

I just want someone to break it down. Where does the actual money come from?
 
Last edited:
Cunningham said:
Right. It's easy for us to make fun, but what is the ACTUAL plan?

I have been reading up on this because I thought maybe I was being unfair. So I figured, I will look at this from a politically neutral position and just see if it makes sense.

There's NO information on how he plans to actually do this. The argument is 'the US spends X dollars' per person and other countries spend less. But there's no explanation of how they came to these numbers.

If people are paying for their own health insurance, then 'The US' isn't spending anything...

It seems they are cooking up these stats disingenously by saying any money spent anywhere in the US by anyone is 'the US.'

This doesn't account for the fact that very wealthy people might choose to spend a fortune on health insurance to ensure the best, most comprehensive coverage possible.

So that's not in any way an apples to apples comparison with someone in Canada who just pays whatever taxes the government tells them to and gets the same level of care as everyone else.

The argument being 'The US spends this much and it's going to be cheaper per person to do it Bernie's way' doesn't explain the fundamental question:

Who pays for it? Where does the money actually come from? How much will a family of four living on $70k a year be expected to pay and how much more will a millionaire pay?

And of course, Congress is expempt right? As usual? So that's a massive pool of millionaires getting out of paying their fair share.

I just want someone to break it down. Where does the actual money come from?
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Taxes.
It will HAVE to come from taxes.

70 percent of everyone's income.
Everyone will get to keep 30 percent of the money they work for. The rest goes to the government.

If you work for 100 dollars a day you will actually make 30 dollars a day.
 
TheOldMan said:
Honestly I'd like to hear a liberals opinion on this too, because beyond the fairy godmother it sounds like nothing more than pandering to the sheep. I have yet to see anyone describe it with any clarity beyond fantasy.
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It's not really complicated. Supporters of the plan believe that it would reduce overall costs and it could be paid for with higher taxes. So people's insurance premiums would go to zero, and their taxes would go up, but most people would come out ahead on the deal.
 
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