How would Cormier vs Prime Fedor go down?

[NoSmilez]

Fedor himself was of course a pretty high level Judoka, coming 3rd n the Russian championships twice at a very young age definitely marks you out as a significant talent, it was actually him not getting his Master of Sports status/funding in Judo due to politics that caused him to shift to Sambo and then MMA and I suspect the former was always viewed as a path to the latter. Generally though Judoka don't tend to operate by prolonged guard fighting, they either go for subs like that armbar or they look to improve position quickly such as sweeping Nog and Randleman.

Again for me it wouldn't just be Fedor as a challenge for DC, most obviously I think Crocop and Nog would be massive tests for him as well.

I don't want to sound pretentious. There is a difference between sweeps and reversals. Fedor doesn't really sweep anyone. He didn't use anything from the guard with his fight with Randleman. What I am pretty much trying to say is that if you reverse someone, you aren't in the position to armbar them.

The whole discussion with the guard stems from folks believing Fedor can just explode from guard and armbar someone like Jones or DC without setting it up. Fedor fought wrestlers that just go into the guard right after the takedown. Someone like DC doesn't even go into guard and Jones doesn't entertain that notion anymore although I feel that took away his best weapon which is his elbows on the ground.

 

[kflo]

I specifically said hes been fighting full contact since 2000 so yes, unless you're retarded you would understand that hes accumulated mileage and damage from taking blows to the head. Is it that hard for you to respect the fact that Fedor peaked in 2005 around the 23 fight mark? The same way DC has peaked now 23 fights into his career. There is a laundry list of reasons for why and how Fedor could have lost 5 years past his peak, regardless of his age.

Fedor didnt lose for a decade and lost 5 years after he peaked. What's so hard to understand about this?

so your view is that fedor started to decline in 2005 from blows to the head....

because 23 fights into your career is the point that happens.....

one would be retarded not to see that....

maybe fedor peaked in 2005. i wouldn't doubt that's about right. but the reason for declining from there is likely not at all related to taking blows to the head. how would blows to the head have diminished him in say 2006?

 

[RizinSon88]

He isn't subbing DC based on what exactly? Who has DC gone to the ground with that is dangerous from their back?

We must agree to disagree...I could just as easily ask who has Fedor subbed who was even mediocre on the ground?

Josh, Mir and Bigfoot never got DC in a position to work at their grappling.

 

[Mga223]

We must agree to disagree...I could just as easily ask who has Fedor subbed who was even mediocre on the ground?

Josh, Mir and Bigfoot never got DC in a position to work at their grappling.

Who is Fedors best sub win? I mean everyone just goes on about arm bar if he gets taken down.

Never understood it lol.

 

[PalmStrike]

Good fight, but I say Fedor KOs him in the 2nd round with a right hook

Same way Fedor/Randleman went...

 

[VenomCarnage]

Sick to death of this old ass thread.

 

[Niel99ad]

Cormier and Fedor are pretty much the same age. DC has been unstoppable his entire mma career until he faced arguable the best fighter ever.

I dont know what tools Fedor had at any point in career especially when he was getting knocked out by old MWs like Dan, Bigfoot and Werdum while Cormier was crushing these guys.

Fedor was quickly eliminated from the SF grandprix that DC won

Cormier represents the next level of HW mma even though hes the same age as Fedor

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read.

1) Different fighters have different "Prime" timings/lenghts

2) While DC was in the Olympic team(Totally clean!) wrestling, Fedor has twice a smart MMA fights, and who knows how many more Combat Sambo and Sambo matches, which are much much more hard on the joints

 

[moreorless87]

I don't want to sound pretentious. There is a difference between sweeps and reversals. Fedor doesn't really sweep anyone. He didn't use anything from the guard with his fight with Randleman. What I am pretty much trying to say is that if you reverse someone, you aren't in the position to armbar them.

The whole discussion with the guard stems from folks believing Fedor can just explode from guard and armbar someone like Jones or DC without setting it up. Fedor fought wrestlers that just go into the guard right after the takedown. Someone like DC doesn't even go into guard and Jones doesn't entertain that notion anymore although I feel that took away his best weapon which is his elbows on the ground.

He was as you say often happy to work from positions side control or north/south from the bottom hitting reversals but I'm not really sure what you mean about DC never staying in opponents guards? sometimes he can get directly into side control but mostly he ends up in guard when he takes someone down and then looks to build position. Either way Fedor was never someone who was happy to spend long on the bottom with someone in his guard, he typically either looked to reverse or looked for a submission quite fast.

Honestly my feeling is that at most Cormier might be able to take and hold him down for a round, I don't think he'd be able to threaten him. Guys he's been putting away like Rumble, Lewis and Volkan are all IMHO very poor on their backs indeed, Rumble might have the worst bottom game of an elite fighter in MMA history.

I would say actually the most likely thing is Cormier gets takedowns but can't keep control for long and you end up with quite a fast paced matchup, in that situation I think he'd need to get a KO within the first 10 mins before he tires. Standing though I think we saw that whilst Fedor preffered boxing he did have a wider range of attacks, against DC I think you'd see more knees plus body and lowkicks. EVen boxing wise I don't think he'd give DC what he wants, that is close boxing exchanges in the pocket, he tends to explode in with 1-2 punchs and unlike Stipe a lot of head movement. Nog in the 3rd fight was totally flummoxed, he was a strong technical boxer by MMA standards who could go toe to toe with Sergei but just couldn't enguage Fedor much.

 

[Mamou]

We must agree to disagree...I could just as easily ask who has Fedor subbed who was even mediocre on the ground?

Josh, Mir and Bigfoot never got DC in a position to work at their grappling.

That's because they all have shit standup. Why would DC grapple with them if he could beat them standing? He couldn't do that to Fedor because Fedor has better standup than DC.

And to answer your question, Lindland. He's also went to the ground and held his own or dominated Big Nog, Babalu, and Arona who all have great BJJ.

 

[Mixfight]

so your view is that fedor started to decline in 2005 from blows to the head....

because 23 fights into your career is the point that happens.....

one would be retarded not to see that....

maybe fedor peaked in 2005. i wouldn't doubt that's about right. but the reason for declining from there is likely not at all related to taking blows to the head. how would blows to the head have diminished him in say 2006?

No I said Fedor peaked by 2005 and finally lost in 2010, years past his peak, after a decade of fighting professionally. You know, the same way other athletes usally start to decline after a decade of performing at the highest level. It's not because of any one reason. Unless you're retarded you should understand that there could be a list of things responsible for an athletes decline after 10 years. Not just "blows to the head" or any other one thing like you immaturely keep bringing up. How long would Fedor need to keep winning for you to acknowledge that he was special? 15 years? 20 years? Or was he supposed to stay peaking from 2005 -2019 because Randy and Hendo took steroids and fought into their 40s???? Lol

Or are you too stupid to understand that after 10 years it's not any one thing that contributes to an athletes decline?

Or was Fedor supposed stay undefeated from 2000 -2019 for you to finally give him a fair shake????

 

[kflo]

No I said Fedor peaked by 2005 and lost in 2010 after a decade of fighting professionally. You know, the same way other athletes usally start to decline after a decade of performing on the highest level. It's not because of any one reason. Unless you're retarded you should understand that there could be a list of things responsible for an athletes decline after 10 years. Not just "blows to the head" or any other one thing like you immaturely keep saying. How long would Fedor need to keep winning for you to acknowledge that he was special? 15 years?

Or are you too stupid to understand that after 10 years it's not any one thing that contributes to an athletes decline?

Or was Fedor supposed stay undefeated from 2000 -2019 for some American douche to finally give him a fair shake????

i never said fedor wasn't special.
i never said fedor should stay undefeated.
i never said he didn't decline.

what i am saying is that blows to the head isn't likely a reason for his decline starting in 2005...

it was more wear and tear and decreasing focus and general aging. and these aren't necessarily things that are unique to mma in combat sports. again, you're blanketly stating that his decline was obviously because of getting hit in the head whereas dc wasn't, and i don't see why that's such a certainty. yes, fighters decline for different reasons and at different times. fedor's wasn't from excessive blows to the head by 2005.

 

[Mixfight]

i never said fedor wasn't special.
i never said fedor should stay undefeated.
i never said he didn't decline.

what i am saying is that blows to the head isn't likely a reason for his decline starting in 2005...

it was more wear and tear and decreasing focus and general aging. and these aren't necessarily things that are unique to mma in combat sports. again, you're blanketly stating that his decline was obviously because of getting hit in the head whereas dc wasn't, and i don't see why that's such a certainty. yes, fighters decline for different reasons and at different times. fedor's wasn't from excessive blows to the head by 2005.

I didn't say his decline happened JUST because of blows to the head I said that it was one of the factors the same way it would be a factor to anyone who has been fighting full contact since the age of 20 compared to someone who has been fighting full contact from the age of 30. Is it that hard to understand that a fighter who starts a decade of dominance at the age of 20 will be burnt by the age of 33? Is it that hard to understand that a guy who started fighting at 30 is going to be burnt out by 43?

Do you think DCs chin will hold up the same way when hes 43 even though he hasn't taken that many hits to the head? Or do you think his chin, reflexes, in fight instincts will remain in tact due to some preventative aging measure DC takes that Fedor failed to????

 

[NoSmilez]

He was as you say often happy to work from positions side control or north/south from the bottom hitting reversals but I'm not really sure what you mean about DC never staying in opponents guards? sometimes he can get directly into side control but mostly he ends up in guard when he takes someone down and then looks to build position. Either way Fedor was never someone who was happy to spend long on the bottom with someone in his guard, he typically either looked to reverse or looked for a submission quite fast.

Watch DC's takedowns against the fence. I am pretty sure there are many highlights of him floating around. Majority of them; he doesn't end up in guard since he doesn't shoot from outside and he ends every takedown from angle. He doesn't shoot a power double or drive straight as opposed to the old school guys that would be content land a takedown to throw elbows from inside the guard position. Coleman hangs out in that position. This fight will end up on the ground for sure.
What Fedor does off his back is very basic but it works for him well. It is based on speed and explosiveness. His teammates cannot replicate what he does. If you watch his fights; how many people passed his guard? He works off reversals but I don't think he can get those on someone like DC.

 

[Mixfight]

Watch DC's takedowns against the fence. I am pretty sure there are many highlights of him floating around. Majority of them; he doesn't end up in guard since he doesn't shoot from outside and he ends every takedown from angle. He doesn't shoot a power double or drive straight as opposed to the old school guys that would be content land a takedown to throw elbows from inside the guard position. Coleman hangs out in that position. This fight will end up on the ground for sure.
What Fedor does off his back is very basic but it works for him well. It is based on speed and explosiveness. His teammates cannot replicate what he does. If you watch his fights; how many people passed his guard? He works off reversals but I don't think he can get those on someone like DC.

This is a fair assessment and the fight would tell the story.

IMO DC would be surprised at Fedors skill and strength in the clinch. DC doesnt shoot power doubles and singles. He punches his way into a clinch.

I think a prime Fedor was susceptible to power double legs and single legs but he very rarely got bullied in the clinch if ever. Guys like Coleman and Randleman had some of the best power doubles in the history of MMA and had nothing for Mirko. Fedor took Mirko down from the clinch at will.

I think DC could easily get KTFO trying to punch his way into the clinch with a prime Fedor. I also think the clinch would be more difficult than DC anticipates and they would end up disengaging and go back to trading shots which is where I would favor a prime Fedor over DC any day. If fucking Volkan Ozdemir can make DC work for takedowns and land shots than so can a prime fucking Fedor.

On the ground I agree it would be hard to sweep DC from bottom half guard but Fedor could easily use the lock down the same way Anderson did and survived very well on bottom. If the fight is in Pride where elbows on the ground weren't allowed then I'd like Fedors chances of tying DC up or creating a scramble from bottom even more. In the UFC in a cage it would definitely be harder.

I think DC is one of the greatest fighters ever and he could certainly beat anyone but anyone who thinks he would easily run through a prime Fedor is delusional.

 

[locust rising]

DC via being evolved and having a top gym to gameplan

 

[NoSmilez]

This is a fair assessment and the fight would tell the story.

IMO DC would be surprised at Fedors skill and strength in the clinch. DC doesnt shoot power doubles and singles. He punches his way into a clinch.

I think a prime Fedor was susceptible to power double legs and single legs but he very rarely got bullied in the clinch if ever. Guys like Coleman and Randleman had some of the best power doubles in the history of MMA and had nothing for Mirko. Fedor took Mirko down from the clinch at will.

I think DC could easily get KTFO trying to punch his way into the clinch with a prime Fedor. I also think the clinch would be more difficult than DC anticipates and they would end up disengaging and go back to trading shots which is where I would favor a prime Fedor over DC any day. If fucking Volkan Ozdemir can make DC work for takedowns and land shots than so can a prime fucking Fedor.

On the ground I agree it would be hard to sweep DC from bottom half guard but Fedor could easily use the lock down the same way Anderson did and survived very well on bottom. If the fight is in Pride where elbows on the ground weren't allowed then I'd like Fedors chances of tying DC up or creating a scramble from bottom even more. In the UFC in a cage it would definitely be harder.

I think DC is one of the greatest fighters ever and he could certainly beat anyone but anyone who thinks he would easily run through a prime Fedor is delusional.

Fair enough but DC is actually really big on singles legs. That is actually his entry to the majority of his takedowns where he starts to chain. Personally I think the power doubles are being phased out of MMA since it is a high risk move and people sprawl out; even if you are sucessful you still end up in guard. The current trend of mma wrestling is a single to footsweep/upperbody lock or single then towards the wall. Things really change and tactics evolve with time. On a side note, when is the last time you seen someone armbar from the bottom? It's a move you drill a lot in BJJ but you don't see it in practice unless there is a tremendous skill difference.

With regards to the ground, Fedor using the lockdown is highly unlikely considering he never used it in his career even to this day.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Fedor mauls him

 

[Mixfight]

Fair enough but DC is actually really big on singles legs. That is actually his entry to the majority of his takedowns where he starts to chain. Personally I think the power doubles are being phased out of MMA since it is a high risk move and people sprawl out; even if you are sucessful you still end up in guard. The current trend of mma wrestling is a single to footsweep/upperbody lock or single then towards the wall. Things really change and tactics evolve with time. On a side note, when is the last time you seen someone armbar from the bottom? It's a move you drill a lot in BJJ but you don't see it in practice unless there is a tremendous skill difference.

With regards to the ground, Fedor using the lockdown is highly unlikely considering he never used it in his career even to this day.

I didnt mean actually use a lock down but I meant Fedor could easily stall on bottom by tying DC up. Look to hold DC when DC tries to punch and look to sweep when DC tries to pass. Other guys have scrambled up from under DC and I don't think it would be impossible for a guy with Fedors hips.

As far as the clinch game goes I see it being more competitive because of DCs entry style. He could definitely chain wrestle Fedor but I see him getting hit while trying to punch his way into the clinch with Fedor.

 

[BigBadHoss]

lol

Jon Jones would finish the best version of Fedor in the first minute of the very first round.

Fuck me, are you on the glue? Fedor puts Jones into the shadow realm.

 

[DagOban**]

Fedor vs DC
Fedor vs Jones

great dream fights