How would current heavyweights do in pride?

[kflo]

Nog almost got killed by a can. HW cans' physique and power makes them a threat to anyone.

Fedor didn't lose to cans because he was a less flawed fighter. He was good enough to tap out an olympic Judoka, while Anderson got subbed by a guy with a losing record. He was also good enough not to get caught by the cans he fought, unlike GSP.

And Serra was 100% a can. Beating GSP doesn't change that.

again, name a can that beat an elite pride hw.....with all their power.....

 

[Grenades]

Look no further than this forum

The point is that it’s an opinion and neither of us can verify our claims. And this forum’s opinions wouldn’t particularly sway me one way or the given some of what I’ve read.

 

[Claude]

again, name a can that beat an elite pride hw.....with all their power.....

To prove what?

There's more to just winning and losing fights.

GSP got TKO'd by Serra, yet he beat Alves. Does that prove Serra was more dangerous or powerful than Alves? Nope.

Why do you think 4-7 Takase was a bigger challenge for Anderson than Sapp was to Nog?

Your request is irrelevant to assess what fights were more risky.

 

[kflo]

To prove what?

There's more to just winning and losing fights.

GSP got TKO'd by Serra, yet he beat Alves. Does that prove Serra was more dangerous or powerful than Alves? Nope.

Why do you think 4-7 Takase was a bigger challenge for Anderson than Sapp was to Nog?

Your request is irrelevant to assess what fights were more risky.

got it. so you have none.......

 

[Mamou]

The point is that it’s an opinion and neither of us can verify our claims. And this forum’s opinions wouldn’t particularly sway me one way or the given some of what I’ve read.

Read the last 2 words in my first post you replied to. You don't have to go any farther than this forum to validate my claim.

 

[Claude]

got it. so you have none.......

It's irrelevant, lol.

The degree of risk a fight carries cannot be defined by it's result only. Otherwise:

-Serra would have been a bigger threat than Bj Penn, Hughes, Alves, etc., as he won and they lost.
-Takase and Chonan would have been bigger threats than Hendo, Franklin, Vitor, etc. because they won.

I'm sorry, but if your argument is that HW cans were less dangerous only because they didn't win, then your argument isn't good.

Sapp alone was more dangerous than Takase, Chonan or Serra, despite not winning. Dude almost killed Nog.

Cheers.

 

[kflo]

It's irrelevant, lol.

The degree of risk a fight carries cannot be defined by it's result only. Otherwise:

-Serra would have been a bigger threat than Bj Penn, Hughes, Alves, etc., as he won and they lost.

nice try but you are taking a single observation and i am referring to ALL observations.

-Takase and Chonan would have been bigger threats than Hendo, Franklin, Vitor, etc. because they won.

see above.

I'm sorry, but if your argument is that HW cans were less dangerous only because they didn't win, then your argument isn't good.

Sapp alone was more dangerous than Takase, Chonan or Serra, despite not winning. Dude almost killed Nog.

Cheers.

they didn't just lose to fedor.....they lost to all of them......every time.

and lol at you trying to make this thread about silva and gsp......

 

[ThunderStruck]

Nog almost got killed by a can. HW cans' physique and power makes them a threat to anyone.

Fedor didn't lose to cans because he was a less flawed fighter. He was good enough to tap out an olympic Judoka, while Anderson got subbed by a guy with a losing record. He was also good enough not to get caught by the cans he fought, unlike GSP.

And Serra was 100% a can. Beating GSP doesn't change that.

IF Serra is a can then everyone Fedor fought except nog cc and aa were cans.

 

[Claude]

nice try but you are taking a single observation and i am referring to ALL observations.



see above.

Actually no. It's common to see fighters struggling or losing to lesser caliber opponents than the ones they beat. Results alone do not prove how risky a fight is.

they didn't just lose to fedor.....they lost to all of them......every time.

and lol at you trying to make this thread about silva and gsp......

They were far better fighters. Why is that surprising?

The fact that they didn't slip and Silva and GSP did, doesn't prove they were fighting lesser opponents. Anderson fought a guy with a losing record. It doesn't get any worse than that.

Bob Sapp beat the crap out of Nogueira far worse than Takase and Chonan did. What makes you think Anderson's cans were more dangerous? That they won? That only proves how flawed Anderson was, not how dangerous his cans were.

Also neither Takase or Serra beat other elite fighters besides GSP and Anderson. So your logic of "tell me how many elites they beat" can also be used on them. They lost to all, except for those 2.

Cheers.

 

[Claude]

IF Serra is a can then everyone Fedor fought except nog cc and aa were cans.

Let's see.

Mark Hunt had a top 5 win (Cro-Cop). Serra had none when he beat GSP.
Brett Rogers had a top 5 win Arlovski. Serra had none.
Tim Sylvia had at least two top 10 wins. Serra had none.
Randleman had a top 5 win. Serra had none.
Fujita had a top 5 win. Serra had none.
Coleman had 4 top wins. Serra had none.
Herring had 2 top wins. Serra had none.

GSP lost to a can. Sorry.

 

[kflo]

Actually no. It's common to see fighters struggling or losing to lesser caliber opponents than the ones they beat. Results alone do not prove how risky a fight is.



They were far better fighters. Why is that surprising?

The fact that they didn't slip and Silva and GSP did, doesn't prove they were fighting lesser opponents. Anderson fought a guy with a losing record. It doesn't get any worse than that.

Bob Sapp beat the crap out of Nogueira far worse than Takase and Chonan did. What makes you think Anderson's cans were more dangerous? That they won? That only proves how flawed Anderson was, not how dangerous his cans were.

Also neither Takase or Serra beat other elite fighters besides GSP and Anderson. So your logic of "tell me how many elites they beat" can also be used on them. They lost to all, except for those 2.

Cheers.

you don't seem to be following.......and don't understand at all statistics.....

gsp and silva lost to lesser fighters for a few reasons. but one is that the talent and skill disparity at lower weight classes between the top and middle is less. the talent and skill disparity at hw is greater. far greater. which, again, is why it never happened. over a lot of observations.

but again, it's hilarious you are trying to make this thread about silva and gsp.....lol. you're like a politician with talking points....

 

[Grenades]

That's true. Thanks.

Read the last 2 words in my first post you replied to. You don't have to go any farther than this forum to validate my claim.

Aaah, gotcha. I see your point but their are still some of us UFC fans who respect the old guard, too. Have a good one, man.

 

[JarlSkuld]

He would be a difficult match up for Fedor, but Mirko had a really good TDD. Curtis vs Barnett would be interesting on the ground.

Agreed. Cro Cop would be his toughest match-up. But, I think he is the favorite against every other HW in PRIDE.

Jarl

 

[po_thead]

Truth: GSP would have lost in open weight bouts.
Delusional fantasy: Thinking the opposite of the above.

That's the difference.

Contrarian at best. Almost no WWs fought at open weight. Sakuraba-GOAT and a few other sad Japanese dudes that got owned. See the goat thread

 

[Claude]

you don't seem to be following.......and don't understand at all statistics.....

gsp and silva lost to lesser fighters for a few reasons. but one is that the talent and skill disparity at lower weight classes between the top and middle is less. the talent and skill disparity at hw is greater. far greater. which, again, is why it never happened. over a lot of observations.

but again, it's hilarious you are trying to make this thread about silva and gsp.....lol. you're like a politician with talking points....

LOL what statistics? Post them please.

Anderson lost because he was outwrestled by almost anyone he fought back then. Also, he got caught in two very unexpected subs. Stop pretending this wasn't a case of two cans exploiting an elite fighter's major weakness. Anderson was taken down and controlled by plenty of low tier guys. Hell, he got dominated on the ground and arguably lost to Alexander Otsuka, a guy who was 2-10. Yes, 2-10. That's how bad the cans he struggled with were.

You think a 2-10 guy is more dangerous than a 7-0 guy? LOL.

If the gap was closer, it wasn't because Takase and Chonan were good, it was because Anderson had a gigantic weakness. Guys like Fedor, Nog and Cro-Cop simply didn't have major weaknesses that could easily be exploited by cans. None of them could easily be outwreslted or outstruck. If Fedor's grappling was a major flaw in his game (like Anderson's), an Olympic grappler like Ogawa could have subbed him. But Fedor was very competent everywhere.

And GSP went toe to toe, left his head completely exposed and got caught by a big punch. That could've easily happened to Nog vs. Bob Sapp considerig Sapp had KO'd guys like Hoost before. Only difference is Nog didn't stand and trade with him.

You know how many fighters Serra had finished by strikes before GSP? Zero.

So no, your claim that MW and WW cans were better is completely groundless.

Cheers.

 

[Claude]

Contrarian at best. Almost no WWs fought at open weight. Sakuraba-GOAT and a few other sad Japanese dudes that got owned. See the goat thread

Proves my point.

 

[po_thead]

Proves my point.

You could say that about anyone under 203, so it's meaningless.

 

[Claude]

You could say that about anyone under 203, so it's meaningless.

That doesn't change anything I said.

Also, you were not the person I was arguing with, thus you don't understand the context of my posts.

 

[moreorless87]

except there were no "cans" that beat any elite hw's in pride. the cans at hw were fodder.....

and calling serra a can is a joke. he beat gsp, was competitive with bj and hughes (and din), wins over lytle and edwards too.

and noone ever denied fedor's streak was impressive as it was.

In this case though "cans" is making refference to the way the term is used to belittle Pride era fighters, its basically pushing the idea that anyone besides the top elite level is a can. Matches like Randleman beating Mirko or Overeem beating Sergei would probably qualify along those lines.

 

[kflo]

In this case though "cans" is making refference to the way the term is used to belittle Pride era fighters, its basically pushing the idea that anyone besides the top elite level is a can. Matches like Randleman beating Mirko or Overeem beating Sergei would probably qualify along those lines.

I look at the pride cans as the guys who didn’t really fight for a living. Wrestlers and mini-celebrities and local jobbers. Not guys like overeem who was 21-6 and had recently finished vitor and igor.