If Joshua convincingly beats Usyk, where does he rank all-time?

[burningspear]

As someone from England and a fan of Joshua, i really hope Usyk pulls the upset and wins. Sick of all this kissy kissy chasey chasey with the big 3.

controversial

 

[Badr Hari]

He had health issues in the lead up to the first Ruiz fight but hasn’t ever said what they was but that they needed fixing even before the rematch
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...lth-issue-surgery-next-opponent-a9238696.html

Well this interview was given after the Ruiz rematch in Arabia. So I never knew he made this excuse, but definitely he is allowed to after getting his revenge. Even there he never mentioned concussion. "I felt tired" so I needed an "operation" sounds weird but anyway the only guy concussed prior to Joshuas first knockdown at the MSG was Andy motherf**king Ruiz who was coming from the floor himself a few seconds before.

 

[PUO3]

Well this interview was given after the Ruiz rematch in Arabia. So I never knew he made this excuse, but definitely he is allowed to after getting his revenge. Even there he never mentioned concussion. "I felt tired" so I needed an "operation" sounds weird but anyway the only guy concussed prior to Joshuas first knockdown at the MSG was Andy motherf**king Ruiz who was coming from the floor himself a few seconds before.

Must be why AJ’s training partners and people who witnessed it said he got laid out during sparring.

(Same as why Fury/Wilder is off)

 

[Badr Hari]

Must be why AJ’s training partners and people who witnessed it said he got laid out during sparring.

(Same as why Fury/Wilder is off)

Really? Is there a rumor about Fury with something similar because I've been trying to ignore any Wilder/Fury news lately as much as I can lol. I thought it was just an unsymptomatic covid positive test. Joshuas concussion is just a forum myth though. We never heard these stories from the"witnesses" theirself. Everyone attached to the sparring partners denied it when contacted as far as I've seen.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

Really? Is there a rumor about Fury with something similar because I've been trying to ignore any Wilder/Fury news lately as much as I can lol. I thought it was just an unsymptomatic covid positive test. Joshuas concussion is just a forum myth though. We never heard these stories from the"witnesses" theirself. Everyone attached to the sparring partners denied it when contacted as far as I've seen.

The sparring partners aren't trying to get famous off their sparring and showing some professionalism?

 

[PUO3]

Really? Is there a rumor about Fury with something similar because I've been trying to ignore any Wilder/Fury news lately as much as I can lol. I thought it was just an unsymptomatic covid positive test. Joshuas concussion is just a forum myth though. We never heard these stories from the"witnesses" theirself. Everyone attached to the sparring partners denied it when contacted as far as I've seen.

Fury’s face was beaten to hell in an interview days before the news broke then there was stuff everywhere that Jared Anderson knocked him out. Supposedly had covid but was seen out in casinos and car dealerships. Its all nonsense.

 

[Badr Hari]

The sparring partners aren't trying to get famous off their sparring and showing some professionalism?

In two years time at least something would have leaked if any truth was behind it. Even if the boxers are keeping the secrets from the media they would have at least told to an associate by this time. I'll keep it in the speculation folder until I see evidence.

 

[Badr Hari]

Fury’s face was beaten to hell in an interview days before the news broke then there was stuff everywhere that Jared Anderson knocked him out. Supposedly had covid but was seen out in casinos and car dealerships. Its all nonsense.

Lol that one sounds crazy. Reminds me when they said Dubois knocked out Povetkin in preparation for the AJ fight three or four weeks prior. Truth was Povetkin had a black eye (even on fight night) but that's about the ONLY fact upon a YOUTUBER spread the word. Dubois of course denied it later. The covid story is a more believable one as we have plenty of fights in recent weeks canceled from them stupid tests.

 

[PUO3]

Lol that one sounds crazy. Reminds me when they said Dubois knocked out Povetkin in preparation for the AJ fight three or four weeks prior. Truth was Povetkin had a black eye (even on fight night) but that's about the ONLY fact upon a YOUTUBER spread the word. Dubois of course denied it later. The covid story is a more believable one as we have plenty of fights in recent weeks canceled from them stupid tests.

I wish we could be flies on the wall of training camps for major fights. I think wed be shocked at what actually happens in them.

 

[RDL81]

Really? Is there a rumor about Fury with something similar because I've been trying to ignore any Wilder/Fury news lately as much as I can lol. I thought it was just an unsymptomatic covid positive test. Joshuas concussion is just a forum myth though. We never heard these stories from the"witnesses" theirself. Everyone attached to the sparring partners denied it when contacted as far as I've seen.

It’s not a forum myth though it was reported in the uk press, Joey Dawejko was meant to be the sparring partner but it was denied by AJ etc

 

[aries]

We get those excuses all of the time no excuses, then he's stupid because his life would be on the line and his record and belts and he lost them, because he wanted to fight even when being hurt concussed this could cause a loss and his health just because he wanted to fight on that day ? not buying that excuse his trainer knows better unless he's also stupid and has no clue what he's doing you simply don't put your fighters life health record in danger when you could just postpone the fight until later no excuses just a stupid corner, his trainer will cost him more fights if he's that incompetent, I would fire his ass, but that excuse is probably fake.

I never claimed he had a concussion before the fight. That's a different matter. What is documented is that he got a concussion from that shot that Ruiz landed.

 

[SandisLL]

Pulev aside, who has Joshua got on his resume that puts him in any ATG discussion?

An old Vlad. Dillian Whyte?! Parker? Ruiz?

Pulev never had main world title belt. Wasn't Olympic Gold medalist in ams.
Wlad then was inactive 15 or more months in row. before this fight. Beltless, 41 y.o Good big surname to get on resume but this win isn't even close to dream claim to be HOF candidate, not alone to talk about ATG.
Whyte never had main world title belt, had been sparked by 224 lbs 41 y.o past prime over the hill Povetkin in eddie backyard show. 41.5 y.o post covid Povetkin beatup by Whyte doesn't eliminates fact that Whyte NEVER had main world title and had been sparked out cold with 1 punch by 41 y.o 224 lber while being 32 y.o 252 lbs monster claimed to be world title candidate.
Ruiz : he did not had main world title before first fight vs A.J. Again, I don't see there reason to talk about HOF or God Help Us, ATG.
Parker had belt, fight was in A.J s backyard.
If to talk about HOF, Fury is more close to this than A.J
Fury had beat current champion with 5? different belts in old Wlad on foreign soil.
Fury had beat current WBC champion in champion's home country where champion was huge tickets seller during long years.
A.J resume isn't even close to this.
Wins over current camps on foreign soil always should be counted higher than wins in country where said fighter is very big and important tickets seller.
Win over big name if big name didn't had belt before fight should be counted lower.
Win over big name who had been inactive more than 12 months should be counted lower.
Win over big name coming out of lost fight should be counted lower.

Likes Fury or doesn't likes, his resume is better if we talk about possibility to be HOF boxer. Maybe. Maybe.

 

[aries]

Pulev never had main world title belt. Wasn't Olympic Gold medalist in ams.
Wlad then was inactive 15 or more months in row. before this fight. Beltless, 41 y.o Good big surname to get on resume but this win isn't even close to dream claim to be HOF candidate, not alone to talk about ATG.
Whyte never had main world title belt, had been sparked by 224 lbs 41 y.o past prime over the hill Povetkin in eddie backyard show. 41.5 y.o post covid Povetkin beatup by Whyte doesn't eliminates fact that Whyte NEVER had main world title and had been sparked out cold with 1 punch by 41 y.o 224 lber while being 32 y.o 252 lbs monster claimed to be world title candidate.
Ruiz : he did not had main world title before first fight vs A.J. Again, I don't see there reason to talk about HOF or God Help Us, ATG.
Parker had belt, fight was in A.J s backyard.
If to talk about HOF, Fury is more close to this than A.J
Fury had beat current champion with 5? different belts in old Wlad on foreign soil.
Fury had beat current WBC champion in champion's home country where champion was huge tickets seller during long years.
A.J resume isn't even close to this.
Wins over current camps on foreign soil always should be counted higher than wins in country where said fighter is very big and important tickets seller.
Win over big name if big name didn't had belt before fight should be counted lower.
Win over big name who had been inactive more than 12 months should be counted lower.
Win over big name coming out of lost fight should be counted lower.

Likes Fury or doesn't likes, his resume is better if we talk about possibility to be HOF boxer. Maybe. Maybe.

You are basically ignoring all the rankings. Fury's best win is over old Wlad who then AJ went and beat. That's a better win for Fury overall but not by a great deal. His win over Wilder really depends totally on how you rate Wilder. Let's say he is #3 at HW for arguments sake, that's a decent win but after that? Chisora, Wallin? Fury only has two decent wins. AJ has Povetkin, Parker, Ruiz, Whyte, Pulev and Wlad who were all top 10 wins. 6 wins of top 10's to 2. It's not even close.

 

[Mob69]

P4P, Joshua already has to be ranked above Robinson, Greb, Armstrong, and Langford.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

P4P, Joshua already has to be ranked above Robinson, Greb, Armstrong, and Langford.

Pre Pulev, no. Post Pulev, the fact is undeniable really.

 

[Mob69]

Pre Pulev, no. Post Pulev, the fact is undeniable really.

 

[SandisLL]

You are basically ignoring all the rankings.

About rankings, please let Al and eddie to talk.
If we are talinkg about HOF or ATG, there isn't conversation about how highly ranked : No2 or No5 below champ the boxer had beat.
This does not matters at all.

Fury's best win is over old Wlad who then AJ went and beat.

The biggest difference if we talk about HOF or ATG for fights vs Wlad is this BIG thing:
Fury had won by decision vs 39 y.o old Wlad while being boxer from U.K and this is very big deal alone per se.
Next, exactly thing if we are talking about HOF or ATG claims:
when Fury had fought vs 39 y.o Wlad in Germany,
Wlad was currently reigning active The Ring, IBO, WBA (Super ), IBF and WBO World Heavyweight champion.

A.J had fought beltless, actually usually after 12 months without fights boxer even should be unranked until he is active again and had 1 fight.
This is what this is per se.

Fury had defeated on foreign soil reigning champion who had held The Ring belt and 4 boxing orgs world titles.
A.J had defeated de facto inactive beltless 41 y.o very rich uncle Wlad.

. That's a better win for Fury overall but not by a great deal.

It is very big difference if we do have intent to talk about HOF or ATG.

His win over Wilder really depends totally on how you rate Wilder.

For HOF or ATG never will matter how I rank Wilder.
NEVER and ever.
Wilder was actual, active currently reigning World Boxing Council World Heavyweight Champion in professional boxing.
Fights vs Wilder were in US, this too does means a lot for experienced boxing pundits and boxing history specialists.

My personal opinion can't have any impact on someone to be HOF boxer or not to be HOF boxer.

 

[aries]

About rankings, please let Al and eddie to talk.
If we are talinkg about HOF or ATG, there isn't conversation about how highly ranked : No2 or No5 below champ the boxer had beat.
This does not matters at all.


The biggest difference if we talk about HOF or ATG for fights vs Wlad is this BIG thing:
Fury had won by decision vs 39 y.o old Wlad while being boxer from U.K and this is very big deal alone per se.
Next, exactly thing if we are talking about HOF or ATG claims:
when Fury had fought vs 39 y.o Wlad in Germany,
Wlad was currently reigning active The Ring, IBO, WBA (Super ), IBF and WBO World Heavyweight champion.

A.J had fought beltless, actually usually after 12 months without fights boxer even should be unranked until he is active again and had 1 fight.
This is what this is per se.

Fury had defeated on foreign soil reigning champion who had held The Ring belt and 4 boxing orgs world titles.
A.J had defeated de facto inactive beltless 41 y.o very rich uncle Wlad.


It is very big difference if we do have intent to talk about HOF or ATG.


For HOF or ATG never will matter how I rank Wilder.
NEVER and ever.
Wilder was actual, active currently reigning World Boxing Council World Heavyweight Champion in professional boxing.
Fights vs Wilder were in US, this too does means a lot for experienced boxing pundits and boxing history specialists.

My personal opinion can't have any impact on someone to be HOF boxer or not to be HOF boxer.

I think you are in the minority. Most people rate AJ's resume higher than Fury's. You don't think so, fair enough.

 

[SandisLL]

I think you are in the minority. Most people rate AJ's resume higher than Fury's. You don't think so, fair enough.

Well, one thing is if you rate how popular and marketable the boxer is.
Another thing is more like academic: fights history vs current actual belts holders , very notable former am superstars and former belts holders who does not come in said fight after lost fight before this etc alike details.
For example: if we prepare Ali resume, in 60 ies his most notable wins were vs actual current champion in Sonny Liston and former pro champion, Olympic Gold medalist in Patterson.
How highly you rate these wins, if bearing in mind that Ali too was Olympic Gold medalist.
Is this enough for HOF? Ali from 60 ies?

 

[SandisLL]

I think you are in the minority. Most people rate AJ's resume higher than Fury's.

Well, Fury after win in Germany vs Wlad was inactive, even get out of rankings and like this.
His fight vs Wlad too was one from most boring title fights in history.
For fans this is not lucrative, from academic criteria this was ultra level fight: fight vs boxer with 5 belts on foreign soil and win.

For boxing fans might look very lucrative fight with very well known name, sometimes even if he isn't boxer. If he is boxer, he might be even on L streak, if he is very notable person, will be very lucrative.

From historical perspective actual belts and titles holders fights looks more valuable.

Depends how we value fight: someone from surnames, someone form thing: how high is competition level, how close to 50/50 chances might had been this fight etc factors.