If Joshua convincingly beats Usyk, where does he rank all-time?

I think you are in the minority. Most people rate AJ's resume higher than Fury's. You don't think so, fair enough.


AJ has the better resume, but Fury is considered the better Boxer, until they fight, but nobodies saying Joshua doesn't have a chance to beat Fury, Joshua would have to fight smart control the action & make Fury miss and don't just let him cruise to an easy win while dancing, Joshua has to get physical aggressive and make Fury fight, like Fury made Wilder fight him, by walking him down, remember Fury has that extra weight he's dragging, so Joshua needs to get his conditioning down to 150%, like Evander, because just trying to outbox Fury won't work, Fury is faster has better footwork and is lighter on his feat.

Fury knows how to beat you without him doing basically nothing the whole round just throwing a light jab, Fury knows how to steal a fight by acting cute, show boating, you have to take this away from Fury he did this to Wlad and stole the fight because Wlad wasn't aggressive putting more pressure on Fury.
 
I think you are in the minority. Most people rate AJ's resume higher than Fury's. You don't think so, fair enough.

Boxrec and Ring seem to be in the minority as well.
 
Boxrec and Ring seem to be in the minority as well.
Compared to on here, yeah they are. Usually, you lose your status as lineal if you get caught for PED's but Fury got let off. I can't tell you why they made an exception for him. I suppose he got off on a technicality.
 
AJ has the better resume, but Fury is considered the better Boxer, until they fight, but nobodies saying Joshua doesn't have a chance to beat Fury, Joshua would have to fight smart control the action & make Fury miss and don't just let him cruise to an easy win while dancing, Joshua has to get physical aggressive and make Fury fight, like Fury made Wilder fight him, by walking him down, remember Fury has that extra weight he's dragging, so Joshua needs to get his conditioning down to 150%, like Evander, because just trying to outbox Fury won't work, Fury is faster has better footwork and is lighter on his feat.

Fury knows how to beat you without him doing basically nothing the whole round just throwing a light jab, Fury knows how to steal a fight by acting cute, show boating, you have to take this away from Fury he did this to Wlad and stole the fight because Wlad wasn't aggressive putting more pressure on Fury.
I don't disagree. I think if Fury and Joshua matched up, then Fury would be the favourite to win. Joshua would have to be on fire to win that because Fury has shown he can survive bombs and I think Wilder hits harder than AJ. AJ has a lot more boxing ability than Wilder, however, so he can do better than Wilder. His conditioning would need to be on point too. Tough match, for both.
 
AJ has the better resume, but Fury is considered the better Boxer, until they fight, but nobodies saying Joshua doesn't have a chance to beat Fury, Joshua would have to fight smart control the action & make Fury miss and don't just let him cruise to an easy win while dancing, Joshua has to get physical aggressive and make Fury fight, like Fury made Wilder fight him, by walking him down, remember Fury has that extra weight he's dragging, so Joshua needs to get his conditioning down to 150%, like Evander, because just trying to outbox Fury won't work, Fury is faster has better footwork and is lighter on his feat.

Fury knows how to beat you without him doing basically nothing the whole round just throwing a light jab, Fury knows how to steal a fight by acting cute, show boating, you have to take this away from Fury he did this to Wlad and stole the fight because Wlad wasn't aggressive putting more pressure on Fury.

tbf fury biggest wins were against a gun shy bully, and a KO artist with amateur boxing fundamentals. Wlad was never going to be able to utilise his size, teach and strength against Tyson and he’s not taking any risks since working at stewards gym. Stylistically it was always going to be tough. A rematch would’ve looked very different imo, but not necessarily a different result. Other than that his best win is chisora, a journeyman.
Joshua isn’t gonna be bullied, isn’t scared to throw his hands and won’t be throwing single shots.
This is a very different fight to either wlad or wilder. he’s no where near as elusive as his fans make out. This is close to a 50/50 fight imo. I definitely favoured fury prior to, and after the first ryiz fight. Joshua the KO artist gets no where near fury. He has to he mobile like his last 2 performances

with all the shenanigans of the last couple of months with fury, I think I probably favour Joshua now, just about
 
tbf fury biggest wins were against a gun shy bully, and a KO artist with amateur boxing fundamentals.
If Wlad was from U.K you never had wrote that he was bully.
Actually, despite I do know that you are tribal like majority of boxing fans and never will appreciate an Ukrainian boxer like you will do with U.K boxer.

Facts are different: not all boxers Wlad had fought were with lesser weight at weigh ins than he did had. Some from such specimens were undefeated, heavier than Wlad.
The same Pulev then was heavier than Wlad and undefeated vs old Wlad.

To compare Wlad vs Fury or A.J we need to wait until these will be 41 years old in the ring.
Like this.
Wlad is from Ukraine and therefore he was not better than A.J etc.
A.J had all: home town advantage, should be unranked 12+ months without fight beltless Wlad, who was 41 y.o an was 10 lbs lighter than A.J.
For fans this is evidence how better than Wlad A.J is.
Sure. A.J had his last mandatory in the same Pulev, now 39 y.o after he get beatup from then already aging Wlad.

Boxers origin matters for fans more than reality.

Amateur boxing fundamentals is thing that I think Wilder now does not have at all.
Doesn't matters, he earlier had this, when he was Olympic Bronze medalist. He boxed with 2 hands, unlike in pros where he had 1 hand and waiting for KO punch nothing more here.
Wilder was am above average level for sure. Not bad he was.
 
Compared to on here, yeah they are. Usually, you lose your status as lineal if you get caught for PED's but Fury got let off. I

Well, looks that when Fury had fought vs 39 y.o Wlad who then had The Ring, WBA ( Super ), IBF, WBO and IBO world titles, then he was tested in Germany?
0 PEDs find out then and fight was in Germany.

I don't think that then he was on PEDs.
Complicated things sometimes are simple things: very rich lazy 39 y.o boxer vs young, mobile and hungry young Lion.
I think this was reason why Fury had won vs Wlad in Germany.
 
Well, looks that when Fury had fought vs 39 y.o Wlad who then had The Ring, WBA ( Super ), IBF, WBO and IBO world titles, then he was tested in Germany?
0 PEDs find out then and fight was in Germany.

I don't think that then he was on PEDs.
Complicated things sometimes are simple things: very rich lazy 39 y.o boxer vs young, mobile and hungry young Lion.
I think this was reason why Fury had won vs Wlad in Germany.
Yes, he was on steroids. And that fight should be overturned to a NC.
 
If Wlad was from U.K you never had wrote that he was bully.
Actually, despite I do know that you are tribal like majority of boxing fans and never will appreciate an Ukrainian boxer like you will do with U.K boxer.

Facts are different: not all boxers Wlad had fought were with lesser weight at weigh ins than he did had. Some from such specimens were undefeated, heavier than Wlad.
The same Pulev then was heavier than Wlad and undefeated vs old Wlad.

To compare Wlad vs Fury or A.J we need to wait until these will be 41 years old in the ring.
Like this.
Wlad is from Ukraine and therefore he was not better than A.J etc.
A.J had all: home town advantage, should be unranked 12+ months without fight beltless Wlad, who was 41 y.o an was 10 lbs lighter than A.J.
For fans this is evidence how better than Wlad A.J is.
Sure. A.J had his last mandatory in the same Pulev, now 39 y.o after he get beatup from then already aging Wlad.

Boxers origin matters for fans more than reality.

Amateur boxing fundamentals is thing that I think Wilder now does not have at all.
Doesn't matters, he earlier had this, when he was Olympic Bronze medalist. He boxed with 2 hands, unlike in pros where he had 1 hand and waiting for KO punch nothing more here.
Wilder was am above average level for sure. Not bad he was.

lol stopped reading your post after the first 12 words. You clearly didn’t understand what I mean, even though it’s fairly obvious by the rest of my post. I’m not digging him out, I’m saying he used his size and strength to bully opponents, and was risk averse, hence why he hardly throw a punch in anger at fury. Do you disagree?

the rest of your post is a waste of my time. I’m not interested in your fckin nonsense. Its fairly evident that I’m a fan of both usyk and Loma based on my post in this forum, but you live in cloud cuckoo land and spout the same random nonsense to pretty any US and British poster
 
Well, looks that when Fury had fought vs 39 y.o Wlad who then had The Ring, WBA ( Super ), IBF, WBO and IBO world titles, then he was tested in Germany?
0 PEDs find out then and fight was in Germany.

I don't think that then he was on PEDs.
Complicated things sometimes are simple things: very rich lazy 39 y.o boxer vs young, mobile and hungry young Lion.
I think this was reason why Fury had won vs Wlad in Germany.

he lost because he couldn’t fight fury the way he likes to fight. He couldn’t jab and hold because fury had the longer reach and is the bigger man. He couldn’t bully him! So he had to take some risks. However, under steward he didn’t take risks. He only threw when the opportunity was there and he is unlikely to be countered. That was his downfall against fury. He couldn’t use his tried and tested style

had they fought again I fully expect that he would have come out like the Joshua fight. Been more aggressive and take the fight to fury. He still may not have won still but I think it could’ve gone either way
 
Well, looks that when Fury had fought vs 39 y.o Wlad who then had The Ring, WBA ( Super ), IBF, WBO and IBO world titles, then he was tested in Germany?
0 PEDs find out then and fight was in Germany.

I don't think that then he was on PEDs.
Complicated things sometimes are simple things: very rich lazy 39 y.o boxer vs young, mobile and hungry young Lion.
I think this was reason why Fury had won vs Wlad in Germany.
Fury tested positive for Nandralone between February and March 2015 which was in the build up to the fight which was scheduled for Oct 2015. Then Tyson got injured and the fight was delayed until the end of November. If he wasn't using at fight time he was certainly using before that. But that's what PED users do, they use then cycle off in time for the event testing. And then before the proposed rematch with Klitschko he tested positive for cocaine metabolites. Fury was lucky that the wheels turn very slowly or he'd have been banned from fighting. He got out of it in the end by threatening to sue and bankrupt UKAD.
 
Compared to on here, yeah they are. Usually, you lose your status as lineal if you get caught for PED's but Fury got let off. I can't tell you why they made an exception for him. I suppose he got off on a technicality.

Absolutely, the lineal title is an abstract concept after all and it really doesn't matter to me at all. But most boxing institutions have Fury ranked ahead of Joshua because Fury has 2 great wins and 1 good win, while AJ has 5 good wins and 1 loss. The way we rate them now will mean nothing in reality when they get in the ring to settle it out though.
 
Absolutely, the lineal title is an abstract concept after all and it really doesn't matter to me at all. But most boxing institutions have Fury ranked ahead of Joshua because Fury has 2 great wins and 1 good win, while AJ has 5 good wins and 1 loss. The way we rate them now will mean nothing in reality when they get in the ring to settle it out though.
Which is completely stupid considering Fury largely did nothing and tested positive for steroids, wheres AJ knocked him out and didnt test positive for steroids.

Ill never understand the pass Fury gets. No other fighter gets treated the way he does its unbelievable.
 
Wladimir was still very good when Joshua beat him. That's quite rare for the next generation so he must be high up there.

Lennox Lewis is undisputed nr 1. Most talented also. He could move amazingly slick for his build and took Shannon Briggs and Ray Mercers best shots...

But Joshua must be up there..
 
Then again, how good was Wladimir considering he had no great rival, lost to a golfer, division was and is weak etc...

People assume Wladimir is a given top 10 even though he didn't beat anybody great. On the other hand, there was no one great fo. Him to beat so he's tricky....

He beat a completely washed up Ray Mercer. Ray says himself that he was at best a gate keeper.
 
I don't disagree. I think if Fury and Joshua matched up, then Fury would be the favourite to win. Joshua would have to be on fire to win that because Fury has shown he can survive bombs and I think Wilder hits harder than AJ. AJ has a lot more boxing ability than Wilder, however, so he can do better than Wilder. His conditioning would need to be on point too. Tough match, for both.




Joshua is a better boxer and has a better jab, then Wilder, Joshua has problems fighting on the inside, Ruiz proved this but he's better at a distance using his jab, Fury is a smart boxer on the ropes so Joshua needs to just attack his body and forget the head, solid body shots while Fury covers up, while Fury is trying to sway the judges and crowd with his showboating, but doing nothing, Fury needs throw viscous body shots but not wear himself out, then control the fight with his jab while Fury dances pawing his soft jab, then counter Fury's attack.

Joshua might need to do a young Holyfied against Fury, like Evander did with Big Daddy Bowe in their second fight, Fury has that big body and jabs like Bowe, but Riddick was a better inside fighter, Holyfield out jabbed Bowe and fought him when he needed to, using his jab then movement counter punching and getting out of the way, after he lands combos.


Joshua needs to do this to Fury unless Wilder beats him to it, there's and rumor that Fury has been looking terrible in camp while sparring, so he might have gotten lazy or isn't taking Wilder seriously, or boxing serious anymore.
 
tbf fury biggest wins were against a gun shy bully, and a KO artist with amateur boxing fundamentals. Wlad was never going to be able to utilise his size, teach and strength against Tyson and he’s not taking any risks since working at stewards gym. Stylistically it was always going to be tough. A rematch would’ve looked very different imo, but not necessarily a different result. Other than that his best win is chisora, a journeyman.
Joshua isn’t gonna be bullied, isn’t scared to throw his hands and won’t be throwing single shots.
This is a very different fight to either wlad or wilder. he’s no where near as elusive as his fans make out. This is close to a 50/50 fight imo. I definitely favoured fury prior to, and after the first ryiz fight. Joshua the KO artist gets no where near fury. He has to he mobile like his last 2 performances

with all the shenanigans of the last couple of months with fury, I think I probably favour Joshua now, just about


Wlad just let Fury do absolutely nothing because he couldn't pull the trigger, Wlad got gun shy and wouldn't throw a jab, Fury would just jab and hold, Wlad should've committed to his jab double jabbing Fury then body shots slipping Fury's jab using a pull counter, then body shots, but Wlad would fight strange in certain fights or wouldn't show up, his brother was the better boxer.

Joshua will commit to his jab counter punching Fury, while using movement Joshua will throw power punches and body shots, just don't let Fury play his dancing game while doing nothing but pawing his soft jab then holding, Fury gets into his rhythm dancing showboating but isn't landing anything but his jab, Joshua needs to control the fight being busy, using movement counters but he needs to out jab Fury, others he chasing Fury around trying to land his right but can't because Fury has his jab in his face then holding, that's his style.
 
Fury tested positive for Nandralone between February and March 2015 which was in the build up to the fight which was scheduled for Oct 2015. Then Tyson got injured and the fight was delayed until the end of November. If he wasn't using at fight time he was certainly using before that. But that's what PED users do, they use then cycle off in time for the event testing.

I think ofc everyone knew who is Wlad in Germany and I don't mean there just as a boxer- prizefighter. He was rich businessman.
Ofc if you travel to Germany to fight vs him, you need to be ready to be tested clean when you will arrive in Germany.
Btw in Germany juice is treated more harsh than in US or U.K.
Big aspect also that pro boxing is even smaller niche in sport business in Germany than in U.K or U.S. It isn't soccer and doesn't brings so huge money for gubbermint like soccer ( football ) is doing this in U.K and Germany for sure.
One boxer popped up or not popped, didn't matters much for budget and sport industry.
Treatment if someone had been cached with peds in Germany as a boxer most likely always will be more harsh.


And then before the proposed rematch with Klitschko he tested positive for cocaine metabolites.
I suspect that coked Fury old Wlad might be happy to get in the ring.
After first round coke is an anti ped with opposite effect than peds.
Wlad just let Fury do absolutely nothing because he couldn't pull the trigger, Wlad got gun shy and wouldn't throw a jab,
Maybe legs shy? To box in good quality you need good legwork and Fury then had it far better than then 39 y.o Wlad.

Wlad also was lazy vs Pulev until he get some sharp punches in the face. Pulev was younger than Wlad, then undefeated and not lighter than Wlad. He was a bit heavier than old Wlad.
Age too is factor, especially if the boxer already is rich.
 
I think ofc everyone knew who is Wlad in Germany and I don't mean there just as a boxer- prizefighter. He was rich businessman.
Ofc if you travel to Germany to fight vs him, you need to be ready to be tested clean when you will arrive in Germany.
Btw in Germany juice is treated more harsh than in US or U.K.
Big aspect also that pro boxing is even smaller niche in sport business in Germany than in U.K or U.S. It isn't soccer and doesn't brings so huge money for gubbermint like soccer ( football ) is doing this in U.K and Germany for sure.
One boxer popped up or not popped, didn't matters much for budget and sport industry.
Treatment if someone had been cached with peds in Germany as a boxer most likely always will be more harsh.



I suspect that coked Fury old Wlad might be happy to get in the ring.
After first round coke is an anti ped with opposite effect than peds.

Maybe legs shy? To box in good quality you need good legwork and Fury then had it far better than then 39 y.o Wlad.

Wlad also was lazy vs Pulev until he get some sharp punches in the face. Pulev was younger than Wlad, then undefeated and not lighter than Wlad. He was a bit heavier than old Wlad.
Age too is factor, especially if the boxer already is rich.



Wlad was right in front of Fury, close enough to land his jab and combos, Fury's size might of intimidated Wlad, he didn't know what type of power he had, so he's timid, Wlad just needed to slip Fury's jab and deflect it like Evander did against Bowe in their second fight, then step in throwing a double jab, throwing jabs off rhythm, then throw a right or hook off rhythm punches and body shots ,making Fury hold, then use movement because Fury will want to get even because you just scored points, move turning Fury making him chase you, you clinch then separate and go back to deflecting his jab then stepping in with your power jabs, remember Fury is big & tall with long arms, so Wlad needed to split the guard on the inside Fury is in trouble when someone is inside his reach that's what Joshua needs to do, that's how you beat Fury, you can't just stand their getting a soft jab thrown in your face then let Fury just grab you, and smile that's his style, then he's putting on a show, but realy hasn't done anything, that's what happened in his fight against Wlad.



Frazier did this to Ali, slipping the jab, then off rhythm jabs and counters while inside Ali's chest on the ropes attacking Muhammad's body, then Frazier would throw his off rhythm hook, staggering Muhammad, but Frazier couldn't finish Muhammad if that was Mike Tyson, Ali would've went to sleep, to much power, it's said Ali was already getting sick from his illness so that slowed him down his trainers said they has seen signs of his illness, so maybe a healthy Ali doesn't keep getting caught with counter hooks, who knows.
 
I’m saying he used his size and strength to bully opponents, and was risk averse, hence why he hardly throw a punch in anger at fury. Do you disagree?

the rest of your post is a waste of my time. I’m not interested in your fckin nonsense. Its fairly evident that I’m a fan of both usyk and Loma based on my post in this forum, but you live in cloud cuckoo land and spout the same random nonsense to pretty any US and British poster

I know that you never will admit that not all Klits opponents had lesser weight or size.
More than this: usually their opponents were younger than he.
While for you never a weight bully will be Canelo when he used welterweight boxer in Khan for MW title defense fight.
I hope you are happy how boxing does work in real life.

Regards to risk averse or not averse, what he might had lost if Fury had KOed him?
He wasn't some poor guy who needs some bucks for a living.

It looks that for a lot of fans is very hard to see difference in their age and mileage and even in legwork.
Fury then was young, mobile and " hungry " cat with better legwork than old rich Wlad.

It is acutally common thing to use over the hill notable boxers to fight with elite prospects who needs better marketing boost.
While Fury vs 39 y.o Wlad was not such kind of fight cos Wlad then had these belts, A.J vs 41 y.o rusty Wlad was exactly such kind of fight.
Wlad even wasn't his mandatory, actually he was inactive more than 12 months in row.
A.J had this fight to prove his fanbase that he is better than ( maybe even pirme Wlad ) his 41 y.o opponent.

Yeah, such fights are common in pro boxing, these boost sales.
 
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