Is Brave-Royler 1 the greatest grappling upset of all time?

[Esile]

I don't know, he never looked nearly as frail as they hyped him up to be. In fact, I think he was a high-level swimmer or something like that, if I'm not mistaken. I'll say this, looking at Kimura, who was about 5'7 and 180-something, Helio did not look significantly smaller to me. I mean, he was definnitely taller. Of course he wasn't nearly as muscular as Kimura, but he wasn't that much smaller either IMO.

He is not as small and frail as the Gracie's claim, but he still look pretty skinny and with a small frame to me.

I mean he pretty much looks like me and I consider myself skinny and weak as fuck.

About the Gracie vs Kimura the fight, like I said the Gracie's undoubtedly exaggerate the size difference as much as they can for propaganda reason, but I don't think a low quality black and white video where they are both wearing a GI (which hide their physique) is very reliable to judge.
And even from such a video is still clear that Kimura had a much larger and well built skeleton frame, just look at this video from 1:00 to 1:20 when they are both frontally filmed from a short distance during their entrances and compare how much more well built Kimura looks.


To me it look pretty believable that Kimura may have an huge streght and power advantage (on top of being a much better grappler of course) despite being shorter.

 

[Kforcer]

He is not as small and frail as the Gracie's claim, but he still look pretty skinny and with a small frame to me.

I mean he pretty much looks like me and I consider myself skinny and weak as fuck.

About the Gracie vs Kimura the fight, like I said the Gracie's undoubtedly exaggerate the size difference as much as they can for propaganda reason, but I don't think a low quality black and white video where they are both wearing a GI (which hide their physique) is very reliable to judge.
And even from such a video is still clear that Kimura had a much larger and well built skeleton frame, just look at this video from 1:00 to 1:20 when they are both frontally filmed from a short distance during their entrances and compare how much more well built Kimura looks.


To me it look pretty believable that Kimura may have an huge streght and power advantage (on top of being a much better grappler of course) despite being shorter.

Well, nobody who knows anything about Kimura is doubting that he was far, far stronger than Helio physically. Like I said in the post you are responding to, Kimura was incredibly strong. His training regimen and his physical strength was LEGENDARY. There's a photo where he appears to be benching 300+ pounds with no spotter or rack in sight. Kimura was a rare physical specimen.

Kimura was far more muscular and far stronger. Far bigger...? Maybe bigger, but not FAR bigger. And he was a couple inches taller. And he was a high-level competitive swimmer who allegedly broke national records; so he was hardly frail and apparently, quite athletic.

Helio looks pretty shredded in this photo and really, looks pretty strong. Not a big guy by any means, but he sure doesn't look weak. In fact, he looks a lot like the high-level swimmer that he apparently was:

 

[Esile]

And he was a high-level competitive swimmer who allegedly broke national records; so he was hardly frail and apparently, quite athletic.

I didn't know that, can you link a source please?

And yes, in the picture you posted he seem pretty strong and athletic indeed, maybe he was less muscular and in worse shape in different periods of time?

 

[Kforcer]

I didn't know that, can you link a source please?

And yes, in the picture you posted he seem pretty strong and athletic indeed, maybe he was less muscular and in worse shape in different periods of time?

Here's another photo of Helio, looking pretty far from frail or sickly.

Here are some pages that refer to his swimming background:
https://bjj-world.com/little-known-gracie-jiu-jitsu-facts/
http://global-training-report.com/myths.htm

And...his Wikipedia page, which adds that he was also a rower: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hélio_Gracie

 

[kenetics]

The other losses diminishes Pablo's win. TBH, Marcelo was great but he took Ls. Not many, but he took them.

Pretty much everyone takes lost at the highest level.

 

[Swepingright]

I don't know about the greatest, but possibly the highest.

What's the difference

 

[EndlessCritic]

What's the difference

 

[Swepingright]

He doesn't look strong.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Here's another photo of Helio, looking pretty far from frail or sickly.

Here are some pages that refer to his swimming background:
https://bjj-world.com/little-known-gracie-jiu-jitsu-facts/
http://global-training-report.com/myths.htm

And...his Wikipedia page, which adds that he was also a rower: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hélio_Gracie

Don’t let him on the mat!
He’s far too sickly and weak to learn jiujitsu.

 

[Zankou]

Pablo Popovitch beating Marcelo at ADCC?

Other Marcelo upsets would be when he lost to Michael Langhi and Cameron Earle.

Pablo was an elite champion competitor in the finals who barely eked out a stalling win on points by short grabbing. It wasn’t anything close to a gigantic upset.

 

[Pierced7681]

Pablo was an elite champion competitor in the finals who barely eked out a stalling win on points by short grabbing. It wasn’t anything close to a gigantic upset.

Yeah but that’s the only time Pop ever beat Marcelo isn’t it? That’s still pretty big

 

[Zankou]

Yeah but that’s the only time Pop ever beat Marcelo isn’t it? That’s still pretty big

It’s big because Marcelo was favored, but not a huge upset. I’d consider a huge upset somebody who people thought was far inferior and had no real chance … or a matchup where one competitor totally dominated the other to a really unexpected degree (Like Roger wrecking Buchecha).

 

[Pierced7681]

It’s big because Marcelo was favored, but not a huge upset. I’d consider a huge upset somebody who people thought was far inferior and had no real chance … or a matchup where one competitor totally dominated the other to a really unexpected degree (Like Roger wrecking Buchecha).

Yeah fair enough. Personally I never thought Pablo could ever beat Marcelo, granted it wasn’t an exciting win and he definitely abused the rules. What do you think of Marcelos loss to Langhi?