Is kickboxing a style?

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JohnPJones

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this question came up for me in the karate blackbelts in MMA thread.

Apparently the style of karate Gabriel Varga holds a BB in is more like 'kickboxing'.
But what does that mean? Can kickboxing be considered a style?
In the US at least, kickboxing seems to be any combat sport that involves punching and kicking with no ground fighting, and limited clinch work or takedowns.

This includes point fighting, as well as Muay Thai and everything in between.
In the US and Japan 'kickboxing' was simply a set of rules for karateka to compete in full contact competition.

So has 'kickboxing' become its own style, or is it simply a format of competition.

I say 'kickboxing' simply to differentiate what is typically thought of as KB, vs the fact that even light contact point fighting for karate, TKD, and Kung fu are also technically kickboxing.
 
Woldog said:
KB is like MT but no one is having any fun.
Click to expand...

No elbow, no clinch, no sweep, feel sad.

If you have a look at what's typically considered kickboxing/K1-style, it's notably different to Muay Thai, and many other stand-up forms of martial art. It doesn't really have a specific, rigid "style", but I also don't think it's inaccurate to say that it is its own style.
 
I consider it both a style of fighting & a sport. I guess I pretty much have to since my first black belt was in kickboxing. And just like there are many different varieties of Karate there are many different varieties of kickboxing that award black belts. From the old PKA style to the WKA international style to the K1 style. I trained under Ramon Casal who was a world-rated fighter who fought John Longstreet for the PKA US light heavyweight title back in the day & Amer Abdallah who retired as the undefeated WKA world cruiserweight champion.

In Casal's system at his School of the Fighting Arts the only belt rankings were brown & black. And the only way to earn a black belt was to fight either as an amateur or a pro. And since I'd already turned pro as a boxer, I didn't fight as an amateur as a kickboxer. But I did fight a series of exhibition bouts with nationally rated pros Ken Graziano & Desmond Price before having my first pro fight vs Jersey Long in Kingston, Ontario. Long was the Canadian champion but I dropped him with left hooks twice ( even though the referee only counted one of them ) en route to a draw.

Long & I were supposed to have a rematch in Ottawa on the undercard of a Jean Yves Theriault main event but while training for it I blew out my right knee & needed reconstructive surgery to repair it. And that was the end of my kickboxing career. I probably could have continued but boxing was how I earned my living & I didn't want to risk another injury that could jeopardize my career. So, I retired from kickboxing.
 
teepsandbarleywine said:
No elbow, no clinch, no sweep, feel sad.

If you have a look at what's typically considered kickboxing/K1-style, it's notably different to Muay Thai, and many other stand-up forms of martial art. It doesn't really have a specific, rigid "style", but I also don't think it's inaccurate to say that it is its own style.
Click to expand...
K-1 Is its own style? Seems to be a full contact karate league Since its predecessor was undeniably a karate league
 
Yes obviously. Many kickboxers list kickboxing as their background.

JohnPJones said:
K-1 Is its own style? Seems to be a full contact karate league Since its predecessor was undeniably a karate league
Click to expand...

K1 has a lot of fighters with different backgrounds. Dutch kickboxers, muay thai, karate, tkd, boxing etc.
 
Last edited:
It's taught as it's own style now, so yeah absolutely.

I think early on when Karate was going into the ring you could more easily argue that it was just that, Karate in the ring. But it's evolved now.
In the UK you can become qualified in kickboxing with a senior grade to coach it. This is important here because that's how you get insurance (PI, PL, etc) to teach. I know it's different in the USA where someone just has to say "I'm a coach of XYZ" and now they are a coach of XYZ.

My old gym that recently closed taught 2 styles; Freestyle Karate, and Freestyle Kickboxing.

A shortened story and only from the perspective of gyms under the governing body of Shorai International (Run by Joe Tierney); Freestyle Karate was the front runner to Freestyle Kickboxing. Basically some of the fighters/coaches up and down the UK who regularly fought on the international circuits (WKA, etc), they didn't want to keep training and teaching kata, they just wanted a style that was based on combat. They wanted a system that took members from white to black belt without kata etc as they saw that training didn't really carry over to fighting as much as saprring etc. My coach David Breed had been to Thailand many times since he was 18, so that had a big impact on his training too. (Through his contacts we ended up being the first non Thais to train at Chuwattana, Bangkok, but that's a whole other story).

There was some back and forth with the group Dave was in, who wanted to convince Joe and Shorai to make Freestyle official, and the group(s) that basically said if you allow a style of "Karate" into the organisation that doesn't have kata then we will all leave. So a big bunch of pussies babying over a "tradition" from a country most of them have never been to, using a belt system from from a completely different martial art (Judo), in a languge non of them can count past 10 in.

At first Joe offered Freestyle to remove most kata. Maybe have just 1 kata you must learn and perform every 2 or 3 belts. Eventually it became what exists now as a striking art without any kata. Freestyle will differ from gym to gym, just as any Karate will. But it's largely formed by training for points fighting (semi contact), continuous kickboxing (light contact), and other forms of kickboxing like full contact, low kick, K1, etc. Some gyms claim to teach "K1", but that's not really a thing, K1 is a set of rules to compete under, not an organised system of techniques to train in.

So Kickboxing can be both a recognised style, such as Freestyle Kickboxing in the UK. And it can be a term for competition that has athletes fighting from different arts, like K1.

At our gym the main style was always Freestyle Karate, a freestyle blend of striking from Muay Thai, Boxing, Karate, Taekwondo, and grappling from Wrestling, Judo, and BJJ. Typically our grappling is "good enough", and our striking is advanced. Our 2nd style we taught was Freestyle Kickboxing which was just the striking from the mixed system. You could visit most Freestyle Kickboxing gyms and the striking would be similar, but still a blend from the coaches background and whatever their team was.
 
JohnPJones said:
this question came up for me in the karate blackbelts in MMA thread.

Apparently the style of karate Gabriel Varga holds a BB in is more like 'kickboxing'.
But what does that mean? Can kickboxing be considered a style?
In the US at least, kickboxing seems to be any combat sport that involves punching and kicking with no ground fighting, and limited clinch work or takedowns.

This includes point fighting, as well as Muay Thai and everything in between.
In the US and Japan 'kickboxing' was simply a set of rules for karateka to compete in full contact competition.

So has 'kickboxing' become its own style, or is it simply a format of competition.

I say 'kickboxing' simply to differentiate what is typically thought of as KB, vs the fact that even light contact point fighting for karate, TKD, and Kung fu are also technically kickboxing.
Click to expand...

most kickboxing schools don’t have a belt system tho it’s rare to find one that does.
 
When the word kickboxing is said. Most will think k1. Some will think pants and foot boots.
 
ironkhan57 said:
most kickboxing schools don’t have a belt system tho it’s rare to find one that does.
Click to expand...

Depends where you are. In the UK all kickboxing schools have a belt system. Muay Thai can have the arm band system so wont have belts, here it's all to do with how it's regulated.

JohnPJones said:
Literally no one mentioned a belt system
Click to expand...

Could have been my old man ramble

shincheckin said:
When the word kickboxing is said. Most will think k1. Some will think pants and foot boots.
Click to expand...

It's like evolving pokemon, the stronger I get at kickboxing the shinier my pants become.
 
exclamatio said:
Depends where you are. In the UK all kickboxing schools have a belt system. Muay Thai can have the arm band system so wont have belts, here it's all to do with how it's regulated.
Click to expand...

That's been my experience with all the kickboxing gyms that I've been to in my part of New York & in Canada as well. Perhaps it's a regional thing.
 
sweetviolenturg said:
I consider it both a style of fighting & a sport. I guess I pretty much have to since my first black belt was in kickboxing. And just like there are many different varieties of Karate there are many different varieties of kickboxing that award black belts. From the old PKA style to the WKA international style to the K1 style. I trained under Ramon Casal who was a world-rated fighter who fought John Longstreet for the PKA US light heavyweight title back in the day & Amer Abdallah who retired as the undefeated WKA world cruiserweight champion.

In Casal's system at his School of the Fighting Arts the only belt rankings were brown & black. And the only way to earn a black belt was to fight either as an amateur or a pro. And since I'd already turned pro as a boxer, I didn't fight as an amateur as a kickboxer. But I did fight a series of exhibition bouts with nationally rated pros Ken Graziano & Desmond Price before having my first pro fight vs Jersey Long in Kingston, Ontario. Long was the Canadian champion but I dropped him with left hooks twice ( even though the referee only counted one of them ) en route to a draw.

Long & I were supposed to have a rematch in Ottawa on the undercard of a Jean Yves Theriault main event but while training for it I blew out my right knee & needed reconstructive surgery to repair it. And that was the end of my kickboxing career. I probably could have continued but boxing was how I earned my living & I didn't want to risk another injury that could jeopardize my career. So, I retired from kickboxing.
Click to expand...

Feel like I read a synopsis from Anne Rice.

naturally J/K
 
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