Is Muhammad Ali the Michael Jordan of Boxing?

GolovKing said:
It's not a fact, it's just an opinion that's held by mostly fight fans. The hw crown hasn't even been the greatest achievement in boxing for decades. Smaller guys have been outshining them. The fact that you think it's even a question in the modern era shows your bias. I mean seriously, you think people care about who's the hw champ more than they do who the Superbowl champ is, the NBA champ, mpv, world cup etc?
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Don't get upset, I was just mentioning how it was called the biggest title in sports. I couldn't really tell you about other sports as they completely all bore me. And I think I did mention that the title today doesn't hold the same relevance as it did in times past.
 
Kovalev's "Man Bag" said:
Philanthropy
From 2001 to 2014, Jordan hosted an annual golf tournament, the Michael Jordan Celebrity Invitational, that raised money for various charities.[335] In 2006, Jordan and his wife Juanita pledged $5 million to Chicago's Hales Franciscan High School.[336] The Jordan Brand has made donations to Habitat for Humanity and a Louisiana branch of the Boys & Girls Clubs of America.[337]

The Make-A-Wish Foundation named Jordan its Chief Wish Ambassador in 2008.[335] In 2013, he granted his 200th wish for the organization.[338] As of 2019, he has raised more than $5 million for the Make-A-Wish Foundation.[335]

In 2015, Jordan donated a settlement of undisclosed size from a lawsuit against supermarkets that had used his name without permission to 23 different Chicago charities.[339] In 2017, Jordan funded two Novant Health Michael Jordan Family Clinics in Charlotte, North Carolina, by giving $7 million, the biggest donation he had made at the time.[340] In 2018, after Hurricane Florence damaged parts of North Carolina, including his former hometown of Wilmington, Jordan donated $2 million to relief efforts.[341] He gave $1 million to aid the Bahamas' recovery following Hurricane Dorian in 2019.[342]

On June 5, 2020, in the wake of the protests following the murder of George Floyd, Jordan and his brand announced in a joint statement that they would be donating $100 million over the next 10 years to organizations dedicated to "ensuring racial equality, social justice and greater access to education."[343]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan#Philanthropy
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I do recall hearing about Jordan stepping up in the last year, nothing bad to say about that. One thing for sure, he manages his money better than Ali. Ali was basically, "broke on his ass" as Harold Conrad said in the 80's after a string of costly divorces, bad business ventures and basically giving his money away to his pals. If he didn't have his legacy to fall back on and all the fans who loved him, he wouldn't have been able to recover the way he did
 
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mozfonky said:
Don't get upset, I was just mentioning how it was called the biggest title in sports. I couldn't really tell you about other sports as they completely all bore me. And I think I did mention that the title today doesn't hold the same relevance as it did in times past.
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That's right - heavyweight champion of the world and the fastest man on the planet were the two main men in sports.
Usain Bolt still had that glory around him not too long ago... The world heavyweight championship has slipped quite a bit though and hasn't been what it used to be in 1938 for a long time now.
 
Kovalev's "Man Bag" said:
Philanthropy
From 2001 to 2014, Jordan hosted an annual golf tournament, the Michael Jordan Celebrity Invitational, that raised money for various charities.[335] In 2006, Jordan and his wife Juanita pledged $5 million to Chicago's Hales Franciscan High School.[336] The Jordan Brand has made donations to Habitat for Humanity and a Louisiana branch of the Boys & Girls Clubs of America.[337]

The Make-A-Wish Foundation named Jordan its Chief Wish Ambassador in 2008.[335] In 2013, he granted his 200th wish for the organization.[338] As of 2019, he has raised more than $5 million for the Make-A-Wish Foundation.[335]

In 2015, Jordan donated a settlement of undisclosed size from a lawsuit against supermarkets that had used his name without permission to 23 different Chicago charities.[339] In 2017, Jordan funded two Novant Health Michael Jordan Family Clinics in Charlotte, North Carolina, by giving $7 million, the biggest donation he had made at the time.[340] In 2018, after Hurricane Florence damaged parts of North Carolina, including his former hometown of Wilmington, Jordan donated $2 million to relief efforts.[341] He gave $1 million to aid the Bahamas' recovery following Hurricane Dorian in 2019.[342]

On June 5, 2020, in the wake of the protests following the murder of George Floyd, Jordan and his brand announced in a joint statement that they would be donating $100 million over the next 10 years to organizations dedicated to "ensuring racial equality, social justice and greater access to education."[343]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan#Philanthropy
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Philanthropy is the biggest tax ruse going. Show me where he's stood on the shoulders of giants.
 
fuct. said:
Philanthropy is the biggest tax ruse going. Show me where he's stood on the shoulders of giants.
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I'm sure it is but if someone does any good, I try to give them a little credit. There's always someone who'll say, "well, that's nothing to them" when I mention how an Elvis or an Ali would show kindness to a complete stranger, I just say, "they don't have to give shit". You never hear about Jeff Bezos buying cadillacs for total strangers or handing out 10 grand to a hobo, that takes a character and innocence that he wouldn't be able to fathom.
 
fuct. said:
Philanthropy is the biggest tax ruse going. Show me where he's stood on the shoulders of giants.
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Yeah, he couldn't possibly be helping anyone. Right? And why the hell would he need to stand on the shoulder of a giant? He is a giant!
 
Kovalev's "Man Bag" said:
Yeah, he couldn't possibly be helping anyone. Right? And why the hell would he need to stand on the shoulder of a giant? He is a giant!
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Well, it's not his history in general so I think it's natural to be skeptical, I know I was. But so what, you take the good where you can find it because there ain't enough of it in the world.
 
Kovalev's "Man Bag" said:
Yeah, he couldn't possibly be helping anyone. Right? And why the hell would he need to stand on the shoulder of a giant? He is a giant!
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Did you know, directly after the 9/11 attack, when all aircraft were grounded, the Bushes flew the Bin Laden's out of the US and back to Saudi?
 
mozfonky said:
Well, it's not his history in general so I think it's natural to be skeptical, I know I was. But so what, you take the good where you can find it because there ain't enough of it in the world.
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We don't need to speak in general. There's a paper trail and charitable fundraiser events in his name that dates back 20+ years. His recent history is rich with making a difference outside of his sport and through various outlets.
 
I love Ali, I really do,. That being said, I think owing to his impact as a cultural figure his skills as a boxer are a bit over exaggerated, kinda like Ronda Rousey was in WMMA or Secretariat in horse racing. I just dont see the same levels of dominance from him as I did a prime Sugar Ray Robinson, or even a prime RJJ ---- there are are also alot of other fighters, like my namesake (Tunney), Dempsey, John L Sullivan, Harry Greb, etc that are woefully under rated owing to recency bias and the impact of media, hype and non fighting aspects. If you take away the lip, charisma and cultural significance, I think Ali the fighter is seen on par with a Larry Holmes or Lennox Lewis type champion, maybe even below. I get why Floyd does not even have him in his all time top 5 p4p.

As far as Jordan, it would def be RJJ. I've never seen a fighter so electric, theatrical, clownishly dominant and such a flat out specimen as prime RJJ. It's not a bad comparison tho, as they were both showman and turned it up when the lights were brightest, also damaged their careers by walking away at peaks.
 
Ya just can't compare the two. Both are great. They are what you strive to be when you get into something and do it. Excellent.
 
GeneTunney7 said:
I love Ali, I really do,. That being said, I think owing to his impact as a cultural figure his skills as a boxer are a bit over exaggerated, kinda like Ronda Rousey was in WMMA or Secretariat in horse racing. I just dont see the same levels of dominance from him as I did a prime Sugar Ray Robinson, or even a prime RJJ ---- there are are also alot of other fighters, like my namesake (Tunney), Dempsey, John L Sullivan, Harry Greb, etc that are woefully under rated owing to recency bias and the impact of media, hype and non fighting aspects. If you take away the lip, charisma and cultural significance, I think Ali the fighter is seen on par with a Larry Holmes or Lennox Lewis type champion, maybe even below. I get why Floyd does not even have him in his all time top 5 p4p.

As far as Jordan, it would def be RJJ. I've never seen a fighter so electric, theatrical, clownishly dominant and such a flat out specimen as prime RJJ. It's not a bad comparison tho, as they were both showman and turned it up when the lights were brightest, also damaged their careers by walking away at peaks.
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I’m not one who believes that modern fighters are better than the black and white era but when you go so far back where you’re talking about Sullivan, I can’t help but think that the lack of footage transforms these guys into mythical beings. Harry Greb certainly has benefited from that. We know he was a monster but we literally can’t compare him to anyone without footage.

Even casual MMA fans understand Royce Gracie wasn’t the best and can’t be compared to the modern era of MMA. It’s an error to think that Sullivan had the skills and tools of people with over one hundred years of experience and a large opening up of the talent pool.
 
Kovalev's "Man Bag" said:
He does sound like he's about to drop a conspiracy theory. The stage has been set. I just hope he doesn't disappoint.
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Its strange you want a conspiracy when the facts are outrageous enough.
We all know you can choose to pay your tax dollars through a charity. You could pull up donations for any wealthy person in the public eye. Moving money around does not attest to your character.
Have you ever spent time outside the US?
 
fuct. said:
Its strange you want a conspiracy when the facts are outrageous enough.
We all know you can choose to pay your tax dollars through a charity. You could pull up donations for any wealthy person in the public eye. Moving money around does not attest to your character.
Have you ever spent time outside the US?
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Alright, I thought he'd have the balls to pull through with it, but he elects to chicken out instead of continuing with this conspiracy rant @Kovalev's "Man Bag".
 
fuct. said:
STFU I'm not talking to you. Go back to your earnest posting without an iota of humour.
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Easy with the insults, Mr. Chickenlegs... I doubt that @Kovalev's "Man Bag" is going to fall for your cheap baits anyway, because that's all your comments are.

And I still don't know what you're referring to... Some of Ali's fans seem to think that the guy was joking with every other sentence he spoke.
 
defjaam said:
Easy with the insults, Mr. Chickenlegs... I doubt that @Kovalev's "Man Bag" is going to fall for your cheap baits anyway, because that's all your comments are.

And I still don't know what you're referring to... Some of Ali fans seem to think that the guy was joking with every other sentence he spoke.
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You misunderstand a lot. I can't be bothered to explain everything.
 
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