Is Randy Johnson the greatest pitcher ever?

[jefferz]

 

[StonedLemur]

Is Randy Johnson the greatest pitcher in history, or who is it? Nolan Ryan? Or? What is your reasoning?

Nolan nobody is even on the field with him sir.
Has like 27 records... fahgetaboutit.

 

[Belaya Smert]

He was good. He was also bad.

Pitchers with better ratios were better

HOF Class of ‘99 you say.
98.8% first ballot

 

[Halifax]

HOF Class of ‘99 you say.
98.8% first ballot

He's one of the greatest of all time. That's not the dispute.

The dispute is others were better in their primes and primes and postseason success are what counts most on GOAT lists, not longevity.

He also holds some of the worst all time records and that seesaws the scale.

If you want to only look at strikeouts and wins and ignore walks, terrible fielding and losses and the fact that he had almost no postseason success, well then I don't know what to tell you. He wasn't even the guy on his team the one time he won it all and couldn't win it all or even have moderate world series success when he was the guy

A pitcher’s job is not to try to strike out everyone (although that’s pretty much what Ryan tried to do). His job is not to pitch a no-hitter, although that is a positive thing. A pitcher’s job is to do what he can to prevent the other team from scoring runs. That’s his job. That would include actually pitching the ball, of course, and also things like controlling the running game and fielding his position. Pitchers who are good at these things will permit less runs than pitchers who are not.

Ryan holds the record in the modern era with allowing opponents 757 stolen bases, far ahead of the #2 guy, at 547. This is because Ryan was a lazy, indifferent fielder who ignored baserunners, despite several coaches who begged him to work on that aspect of his game. The success rate on stolen base attempts against Ryan was 75%, one of the highest of all-time

On a similar note, Ryan holds the record in the modern era for worst fielding percentage among pitchers with at least 150 wins, with a horrific .895.

Ryan holds the record in the modern era for most errors by a pitcher, with 90. Second worst is just 59. Ryan made over 50% more errors than Drysdale, or anyone else.

So Yes, he holds strikeout records, and threw a record 7 no-hitters. That’s great. But we don’t take 7 games and ignore the other 800. We can’t focus on strikeouts and ignore walks, hit batsmen, wild pitches, etc. All those things matter.

Brett Favre was an amazing Quarterback. A fun to watch Gunslinger. But everyone will hold his pass interception throws against him when comparing him to Marino

Paul Coffey was an amazing NHL offensive defenseman second only to Orr in points. But he generally doesn't even crack top 10 Defenseman lists......because scoring was all he was good at. When it came to defense he was not good and a lot of what he did helped the other teams score against him.

 

[Reign Supreme]

One of the funniest signs I have seen at any game was in 1995 when the Mariners were playing the Yankees in the playoffs at the old Kingdome.

It's going to take more than 9 Yanks to beat our Johnson.

 

[ferrisjso]

You can't separate the fact that he also owns a lot of the worst records in pitcher history and was abysmal in the post season.

Why does he have more walks than any pitcher in history(horrible stat), and one of the worst infield fielding percentages in history(horrible stat) and among the most losses in pitcher history(horrible stat)

He also couldn't win when it counted most.

A lot of pitchers have much better ratios for good stats vs bad stats and came up clutch when it counted. He didn't.

When Mets fans think of Nolan Ryan we think of clutch postseason play. Thats was his thing.

 

[Halifax]

When Mets fans think of Nolan Ryan we think of clutch postseason play. Thats was his thing.

Lol. He left the Mets hating the team and barely ever played for them. Calling him clutch postseason for the 1 game he ever played is hilarious.

 

[ferrisjso]

Lol. He left the Mets hating the team and barely ever played for them. Calling him clutch postseason for the 1 game he ever played is hilarious.

2 GAMES.

 

[JustforBROCK]

No, and as a non baseball fan I shouldnt have to tell you this.

 

[Halifax]

2 GAMES.

1 world series game. The only other he pitched they gave him a chance to play because they had a hammer lock on the series and couldn't lose so it was a chance to rest their actual starters. Ryan was their 3rd/4th string guy.

In any case, RJ has 7 seasons more valuable than Ryan's absolute best season.

And for the record, Nolan Ryan was my absolute favorite player growing up. I still have a binder with like 50+ nolan ryan cards. He put the fear of god in folks with that fastball. He made me want to be a pitcher. But as a kid pitcher constantly being coached on things to work on in terms of fielding and preventing runs in 1990, you couldn't help but notice all the things he did to lose games too.

He was a pure fireballer who did nothing else and lost many games because of unwillingness to work on other parts of his game. You may get lucky and watch one of his on games and see 10 strikeouts. But you might also see him walk 6 guys in the same timeframe

 

[Madmick]

I haven't followed baseball closely since I was a boy, and I know these three guys are still active, but boy, even as a casual, I expected Kershaw, Scherzer, and Verlander to get more love in here. Crickets.

I thought Roger Clemens was considered the greatest?

 

[Halifax]

I haven't followed baseball closely since I was a boy, and I know these three guys are still active, but boy, even as a casual, I expected Kershaw, Scherzer, and Verlander to get more love in here. Crickets.

I thought Roger Clemens was considered the greatest?

Clemens has an argument for sure

Kershaw inserted himself into the top 5-10 conversation

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

I appreciate Nolan Ryan's longevity and having those no hitters but no way would I consider him GOAT. I'd go with Pedro, Big Unit, Clemens and Carlton over him very easy and probably others.

1986 Mike Scott tho will always be my fave single season pitcher. Tho it seems evident he was cheating. But he was like untouchable then in reg season and post season.

 

[ferrisjso]

I appreciate Nolan Ryan's longevity and having those no hitters but no way would I consider him GOAT. I'd go with Pedro, Big Unit, Clemens and Carlton over him very easy and probably others.

1986 Mike Scott tho will always be my fave single season pitcher. Tho it seems evident he was cheating. But he was like untouchable then in reg season and post season.

I forgot but he wasn't cheating with PEDs. He had this unique cheating method. I can't remember what it is.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

I forgot but he wasn't cheating with PEDs. He had this unique cheating method. I can't remember what it is.

He was accused of scuffing the ball. Batters would frequently ask the umpire to look at the ball after pitches that moved in ways that made no sense. But he was never actually caught.... It was tremendously fun to watch as a Astros fan.

 

[MRT]

Clemens was always my guy...the PED thing was a dark cloud though.

One of the funniest Big Unit moments came during the '93 All-Star game when John Kruk basically said 'fuck this shit' and decided to get out of there ASAP after a wild pitch - LOL