Is there any PED that is virtually all positive?

You kind of need to specify what performance benefits your 'friend' is looking for. Strength, muscle growth, cardio, aggression, fat burning etc. I'm far from an expert but i've heard many times Deca Durabolin would be the steroid of choice for most athletes if it wasn't for the 18 month detection period. Oh and deca dick.
 
if you're waking up at 6 then you're falling asleep at 9.... I don't see that as realistic for my life at least.
Maybe back when I graduated high school, but I've always had trouble sleeping.

You should cut the bullshit, like chatting, social media, Netflix at late evening and do both morning and night time routines.
If you are sleeping less than 7.5 hours, you can't be in good shape physically and mentally, it is science.
(you can for a short period of time, but then you ll have to recover)
 
Like no significant side effects at all.

Asking for a friend.
If you take a sensible pharma grade test dose (say 300-500mg/week split between
2 injections for 12 weeks) with a proper PCT then your chance of sides are minimal.

Peeps just get scared of injecting so instead take far more toxic (and potentially cut/fake/wrongly dosed) orals.

If you can get proper HGH and run a concurrent low dose (3-5iu/day) alongside the test even better.

A lot of the horror stories are about idiots who stack stupid amounts of multiple compounds and then act surprised when they suffer the consequences.
 
If you take a sensible pharma grade test dose (say 300-500mg/week split between
2 injections for 12 weeks) with a proper PCT then your chance of sides are minimal.

Peeps just get scared of injecting so instead take far more toxic (and potentially cut/fake/wrongly dosed) orals.

If you can get proper HGH and run a concurrent low dose (3-5iu/day) alongside the test even better.

A lot of the horror stories are about idiots who stack stupid amounts of multiple compounds and then act surprised when they suffer the consequences.

Or improper sterilization technique and wind up with abscess on their first injection.
 
For the money HGH is not a great performance booster as the media makes it out to be, but it is safe in non fuktard dosages.
 
Like no significant side effects at all.

Asking for a friend.

Well that is going to depend how you define significant but if you are getting "significant" PE from a drug there is a pretty good chance you'll be getting sides whether you can feel them or not so...

Every drug has a down side...

...that could have been the end of the thread and been accurate which would have avoided us having to endure plainly silly stuff like -

Meldonium ...
Come on guys, it's not a real PED, it's a heart vitamin..
As for safe PEDs - HGH + TST.
But:
...
3- Doses should be low, just to aid recovery, muscle growth, fat loss a bit, no horses doses.
Because in excess, it can suppress your own production. LOL

...

You are not wrong.
Actually you don't need PED's unless you are a pro.

...

You should cut the bullshit...IRONIC
If you are sleeping less than 7.5 hours, you can't be in good shape physically and mentally, it is science.
...)

Least harmful/sides? Maybe Primo but it will shut your natty T production down and I'd call that significant
 
Well that is going to depend how you define significant but if you are getting "significant" PE from a drug there is a pretty good chance you'll be getting sides whether you can feel them or not so...

...that could have been the end of the thread and been accurate which would have avoided us having to endure plainly silly stuff like -

Least harmful/sides? Maybe Primo but it will shut your natty T production down and I'd call that significant

Lol what?
 
Lol what?
At a minimum primo will suppress, even if you only use it for a short cycle (8 weeks or so). I wouldn't personally do or recommend any gear without a test base.

Running primo with a test base (especially a low dose like 300mg/week) would be a pretty sweet first cycle with minimal sides.
 
I would think EPO is quite safe if administered by an expert.

It’s widely used for legitimate medical reasons

but I’m not an expert


LOL

EPO is a very powerful agent that can have serious side effects.

One of the more interesting ones is horrific bone pain coming from the patients bone marrow that is massively ramping up RBC production.

We use it on cancer patients with catastrophic anemia to kick start RBC production.
 
At a minimum primo will suppress, even if you only use it for a short cycle (8 weeks or so). I wouldn't personally do or recommend any gear without a test base.

Running primo with a test base (especially a low dose like 300mg/week) would be a pretty sweet first cycle with minimal sides.

I was thinking about Test + HGH to heal small injuries and get leaner, maybe even get a bit of lean mass.
 
Explain why do you consider them silly
sigh
you made the statements so it would be up to you to back them up, not me so don't expect me to provide a detailed explanation for any of it, you do the work if you wish. I will give you some direction though.


Meldonium ...
Come on guys, it's not a real PED, it's a heart vitamin.. Not a vitamin, does act as a PED- increases endurance , stimulates CNS + + +
As for safe PEDs - HGH + TST.
But:
...
3- Doses should be low, just to aid recovery, muscle growth, fat loss a bit, no horses doses.
Because in excess, it can suppress your own production. LOL In excess? Exo Test will suppress natty production. Period.

...
Click to expand...

You are not wrong.
Actually you don't need PED's unless you are a pro. Need? besides legit medical use for a health condition how can you say who "needs" PED's? Why would their be a distinction between a pro and a novice?

...

You should cut the bullshit...IRONIC
If you are sleeping less than 7.5 hours, you can't be in good shape physically and mentally, it is science.
...) This one is just plain ole wrong, sleep needs are individual, shit ton of people who are in good shape sleep less.

Ambiguous undefined opinion based statements that don't hold up against the facts
 
sigh
you made the statements so it would be up to you to back them up, not me so don't expect me to provide a detailed explanation for any of it, you do the work if you wish. I will give you some direction though.


Meldonium ...
Come on guys, it's not a real PED, it's a heart vitamin.. Not a vitamin, does act as a PED- increases endurance , stimulates CNS + + +
As for safe PEDs - HGH + TST.
But:
...
3- Doses should be low, just to aid recovery, muscle growth, fat loss a bit, no horses doses.
Because in excess, it can suppress your own production. LOL In excess? Exo Test will suppress natty production. Period.

...
Click to expand...

You are not wrong.
Actually you don't need PED's unless you are a pro. Need? besides legit medical use for a health condition how can you say who "needs" PED's? Why would their be a distinction between a pro and a novice?

...

You should cut the bullshit...IRONIC
If you are sleeping less than 7.5 hours, you can't be in good shape physically and mentally, it is science.
...) This one is just plain ole wrong, sleep needs are individual, shit ton of people who are in good shape sleep less.

Ambiguous undefined opinion based statements that don't hold up against the facts

1-Meldonium.I live in EU. Actually where Meldonuim was created.
It was and is freely subscribed to both athletes and people with heart disfunction.
It's effect is very mild. Doesn't Q10 has the similar effects?
Does it makes it a roid?

2- What is Exo test?
Why do you think it will suppress if you are just raising it to the level you had in your 20?

3- Novice has a benefit of gains for the fist 6-12 months of training.
Pro usually competes and needs advantage and recover from hard training.

4-https://www.healthline.com/health/sleep-deprivation/effects-on-body
 
1-Meldonium.I live in EU. Actually where Meldonuim was created.
It was and is freely subscribed to both athletes and people with heart disfunction.
It's effect is very mild. Doesn't Q10 has the similar effects?
Does it makes it a roid?

2- What is Exo test?
Why do you think it will suppress if you are just raising it to the level you had in your 20?

3- Novice has a benefit of gains for the fist 6-12 months of training.
Pro usually competes and needs advantage and recover from hard training.

4-https://www.healthline.com/health/sleep-deprivation/effects-on-body
1- Meldonium is on WADA's list of banned drugs in sports (because it enhances performance). A number of athletes form various countries are currently banned for using Meldonium. CoQ10 is not banned by anyone.

2- Taking exogenous testosterone will very likely suppress endogenous production (even if "you are just raising it to the level you had in your 20s"). That's not to say it won't bounce back to previous levels (after cessation) with or without PCT, and whether it does or not will partially be dependent on dosage and cycle time; however, whilst it's taken your natural production will almost certainly be suppressed, that's pretty much a given.

3- Pro athletes "need" PEDs? I guess there's a language barrier because everything is fucked if that's the case. That's not to say that PEDs don't give competitive advantage, and that many pro athletes do take them; equally many don't, including world and Olympic champions (usage/success is obviously sport dependant though).

4- Yes, sleep is incredibly important but you can absolutely be in "good shape" even if sleep is sub-optimal. It very much depends on the individual though.
 
1- Meldonium is on WADA's list of banned drugs in sports (because it enhances performance). A number of athletes form various countries are currently banned for using Meldonium. CoQ10 is not banned by anyone.

2- Taking exogenous testosterone will very likely suppress endogenous production (even if "you are just raising it to the level you had in your 20s"). That's not to say it won't bounce back to previous levels (after cessation) with or without PCT, and whether it does or not will partially be dependent on dosage and cycle time; however, whilst it's taken your natural production will almost certainly be suppressed, that's pretty much a given.

3- Pro athletes "need" PEDs? I guess there's a language barrier because everything is fucked if that's the case. That's not to say that PEDs don't give competitive advantage, and that many pro athletes do take them; equally many don't, including world and Olympic champions (usage/success is obviously sport dependant though).

4- Yes, sleep is incredibly important but you can absolutely be in "good shape" even if sleep is sub-optimal. It very much depends on the individual though.

1- Sorry ,but WADA is a US org and Us opinion on matters does not equal absolute truth, since there were not enough scientific data shown for the ban and it was likely more political move.

The drug was invented in the mid-1970s at the Institute of Organic Synthesis of the Latvian SSR Academy of Sciences by Ivars Kalviņš.[84][85][86] Kalviņš criticized the ban, saying that WADA had not presented scientific proof that the drug can be used for doping. According to him, meldonium does not enhance athletic performance in any way, and was rather used by athletes to prevent damage to the heart and muscles caused by lack of oxygen during high-intensity exercise. He contended that not allowing athletes to take care of their health was a violation of their human rights, and that the decision aimed to remove Eastern European athletes from competitions and his drug from the pharmaceutical market.[87][88] Liene Kozlovska, the head of the anti-doping department of the Latvian sports medicine center, rejected claims that the ban is in violation of athletes' rights, saying that meldonium is dangerous in high doses, and should only be used under medical supervision to treat genuine health conditions. She also speculated that Russian athletes may not have received adequate warnings that the drug was banned – due to the suspension of the Russian Anti-Doping Agency in late 2015.[89]

Forbes reported that anesthesiology professor Michael Joyner, at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, who studies how humans respond to physical and mental stress during exercise and other activities, told them that "Evidence is lacking for many compounds believed to enhance athletic performance. Its use has a sort of urban legend element and there is not much out there that is clearly that effective. I would be shocked if this stuff [meldonium] had an effect greater than caffeine or creatine (a natural substance that, when taken as a supplement, is thought to enhance muscle mass)."[90] Ford Vox, a U.S.-based physician specializing in rehabilitation medicine and a journalist reported "there's not much scientific support for its use as an athletic enhancer".[91]

Don Catlin, a long-time anti-doping expert and the scientific director of the Banned Substances Control Group (BSCG) said "There's really no evidence that there's any performance enhancement from meldonium – Zero percent".[92]


2- Probably you are right about suppression, but sports doctors told me it is one of the safest courses out there if done under supervision and with quality products.

3- English is not my first language, but i think you got my point.
If you look at how drastically results improved in the Olympics, it is naïve to think, it's only due to improved training, and natural supplements.
MMA also show, that guys on TRT and caught on roids have huge advantage.
TRT - Belfort, Hendo.
Roids - Jones, Lesnar, etc.

4- Every rule has exceptions. It was proven, that sleeping under 7 hours has a lot of negative effects and is real bad for general recovery.
And don't give me that Arny bullshit, about sleeping 5-6 hours and training for that much and being ok, sunce he was on horses roids ( see point n3)

I also have a buddy , who eats mostly junk food and sweets and drinks beer and he is more ripped than me on a diet ( we were training equally in one gym for 6 years).
If you see 1-2 exceptions, that doesn't mean you can recommend to eat sweets, junk food and drink bear every second day to be in good shape to every individual.
 
1- Sorry ,but WADA is a US org and Us opinion on matters does not equal absolute truth, since there were not enough scientific data shown for the ban and it was likely more political move.

The drug was invented in the mid-1970s at the Institute of Organic Synthesis of the Latvian SSR Academy of Sciences by Ivars Kalviņš.[84][85][86] Kalviņš criticized the ban, saying that WADA had not presented scientific proof that the drug can be used for doping. According to him, meldonium does not enhance athletic performance in any way, and was rather used by athletes to prevent damage to the heart and muscles caused by lack of oxygen during high-intensity exercise. He contended that not allowing athletes to take care of their health was a violation of their human rights, and that the decision aimed to remove Eastern European athletes from competitions and his drug from the pharmaceutical market.[87][88] Liene Kozlovska, the head of the anti-doping department of the Latvian sports medicine center, rejected claims that the ban is in violation of athletes' rights, saying that meldonium is dangerous in high doses, and should only be used under medical supervision to treat genuine health conditions. She also speculated that Russian athletes may not have received adequate warnings that the drug was banned – due to the suspension of the Russian Anti-Doping Agency in late 2015.[89]

Forbes reported that anesthesiology professor Michael Joyner, at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, who studies how humans respond to physical and mental stress during exercise and other activities, told them that "Evidence is lacking for many compounds believed to enhance athletic performance. Its use has a sort of urban legend element and there is not much out there that is clearly that effective. I would be shocked if this stuff [meldonium] had an effect greater than caffeine or creatine (a natural substance that, when taken as a supplement, is thought to enhance muscle mass)."[90] Ford Vox, a U.S.-based physician specializing in rehabilitation medicine and a journalist reported "there's not much scientific support for its use as an athletic enhancer".[91]

Don Catlin, a long-time anti-doping expert and the scientific director of the Banned Substances Control Group (BSCG) said "There's really no evidence that there's any performance enhancement from meldonium – Zero percent".[92]


2- Probably you are right about suppression, but sports doctors told me it is one of the safest courses out there if done under supervision and with quality products.

3- English is not my first language, but i think you got my point.
If you look at how drastically results improved in the Olympics, it is naïve to think, it's only due to improved training, and natural supplements.
MMA also show, that guys on TRT and caught on roids have huge advantage.
TRT - Belfort, Hendo.
Roids - Jones, Lesnar, etc.

4- Every rule has exceptions. It was proven, that sleeping under 7 hours has a lot of negative effects and is real bad for general recovery.
And don't give me that Arny bullshit, about sleeping 5-6 hours and training for that much and being ok, sunce he was on horses roids ( see point n3)

I also have a buddy , who eats mostly junk food and sweets and drinks beer and he is more ripped than me on a diet ( we were training equally in one gym for 6 years).
If you see 1-2 exceptions, that doesn't mean you can recommend to eat sweets, junk food and drink bear every second day to be in good shape to every individual.
I'm not even sure what we're discussing here, either Meldonium enhances performance or it doesn't - if it doesn't then it's not a PED (Doping Agency status aside), so we can shelve it in a discussion on "is there any PED that is virtually all positive"?

Also WADA aren't a US organisation.

And being "in shape" is not the same as world-class athlete standard conditioning. I completely agree that sleep is incredibly important; however, I know lots of in shape people and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that within that group sleeping 7.5+ hours a night is the exception as opposed to the rule.


To be honest I'm not even sure why I bothered replying, I think we broadly agree that:

Some substances currently banned by doping agencies probably shouldn't be.
Exogenous testosterone is one of the safer performance enhancers, but there are a number things to consider when taking it (particularly if/when coming off it).
Some PEDs can drastically improve performance (in most individuals, in many sports).
Sleep is very important, and most people underestimate how important it is.
 
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1-Meldonium.I live in EU. Actually where Meldonuim was created. irrelevant
It was and is freely subscribed to both athletes and people with heart disfunction. irrelevant
It's effect is very mild. irrelevant Doesn't Q10 has the similar effects? irrelevant
Does it makes it a roid? Did someone say it was a steroid? I never did, their is a difference between the definition of steroid and PED. You said it was a vitamin.

2- What is Exo test? Short for Exogenous
Why do you think it will suppress if you are just raising it to the level you had in your 20? Because I know what a feedback loop is and how it works in this case

3- Novice has a benefit of gains for the fist 6-12 months of training. so? lol
Pro usually competes and needs advantage and recover from hard training. Silliness, doesn't demonstrate a need by either one

4-https://www.healthline.com/health/sleep-deprivation/effects-on-body even more silliness, unless I missed something nothing in their backs up your previous assertion

Maybe your English is part of the problem, are you even reading the links you provide? Your reply in post #57 is weak, there is plenty of research out there on meldonium and the stuff you quoted contradicts itself. It's not surprising that the guy who invented it defends it, maybe, just maybe he has a monetary or political interest?

Contradiction:
"According to him, meldonium does not enhance athletic performance in any way, and was rather used by athletes to prevent damage to the heart and muscles caused by lack of oxygen during high-intensity exercise." That's partially because it brings more oxygen to the muscles which is Performance Enhancing! And that's just one example of it's benefits.

And then " Liene Kozlovska, the head of the anti-doping department of the Latvian sports medicine center, rejected claims that the ban is in violation of athletes' rights..."
 
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