Is Tony's BJJ Way Overratted?

[GOAT.]

Both his stand up and ground game overrated af.

 

[snugglecakes]

The edit on your post was 6 minutes after I corrected you . Nice try though.

No way man I edited it instantly. Way faster than you ever could have quoted me. You edited my quote to fit yur narrative. Nice try

 

[DoctorDeelon]

Just curious to hear some opinions

I think we've all seen him look less than stellar on the ground and this legendary guard game is elusive to say the least. He sometimes has this way of looking like a flopping fish at times

What say you sherdog?

Yes but to me all that rubber guard bullshit was overrated from the get-go. Just low percentage shit that causes stalemates.

Tony's a good top submission guy, has a good RNC, but never was a guy pulling submissions off his back. He got Kevin Lee but Lee was exhausted and had staph infection and basically gave him the triangle.

 

[BigSmokeNumber9]

His BJJ is very good and he's really good at defending off his back, the problem is his takedown defense is declining. It doesn't help that he keeps putting himself against the fence which is giving his opponents opportunities to take him down. It's actually very similar to what happened to Woodley.

 

[old school 2]

No way man I edited it instantly. Way faster than you ever could have quoted me. You edited my quote to fit yur narrative. Nice try

Both are time stamped.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

an opinion shared by pretty much everyone with any knowledge of ground fighting.

the writing had been on the wall for ferguson for years. he was getting dropped in fights left and right before gaethje beat the shit out of him. he had been thoroughly outgrappled by lee until kevin gassed. he never once shot a takedown on anyone in the past decade, for all his wrestling credentials he only used it defensively.

but people don't really understand jiu jitsu so they think the guy who spams triangles from the guard and goes for whacky submissions is world class. they don't really understand standup either, so they think the guy throwing spinning elbows is a world class striker. tony was, and always will be, very dangerous due to his unorthodox style. but he will also always take a beating from people with solid fundamentals who have the cardio fitting a top contender.

his jiu jitsu is only overrated if you have no clue what you're looking at and thought that he was world class. for the rest of us, he was a guy with an active guard and poor guard retention... and that guy would've been annihilated by khabib.

i never thought he was really great skill wise. i always looked at him as a physical type of fighter. his physicality really made him dangerous to me. his chin, his length, and his cardio. i think he showed just how far a guy with great physical ability and decent but not world class skill was able to do.

at 1 time when they were first to fight, i thought Tony maybe could've outpaced Khabib. but i still thought Khabib was the favorite. now, i don't even think he could do that.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Tony is a good fighter with alot of heart and toughness but in reality his 12 fight win streak was padded to the maximum. Never fought a top 3 ranked guy other than a already checked out RDA who had killed himself making 155 and never fought anyone with decent boxing until he got exposed by Justin on short notice

Struggled his arse off against the likes of Lando and Fighter Kevin Lee

Conor and Dustin would have exposed him comfortably on feet and has been exposed on the ground by Charles & Beneil

Khabib would have destroyed the guy with ease

i don't know about Conor exposing. Tony still has retained his insane chin, if Conor doesn't spark him in rd 1 he's gonna gas and Tony is going to run him over.

it's sad that i think a 37 yr old washed Tony can still beat a 32 yr old Conor, but Conor looks like he's slid more than Tony.

 

[snugglecakes]

Both are time stamped.

That was me editing sumfin else mang…1 of my 10 edits before that caught it first thanks for helpin but now that we’ve seen more of tony, what about the matter at hand…

maybe the Kevin Holland concede the takedown n hope you win off yur back not being the bes strategy is the/an issue. Tony fought this way even during his win streak. Tony’s lack of power wrestler opponents without good cardio and submission defense helped get tony this far… but it’s starting to smell like the same ol “ufc favorable matchmaking to push a hopeful star” issue more than a “he’s getting older” issue.

Once you’re at the top you can’t get stylistically protected anymore and then we see where your career goes from there… n for the most part these types that needed stylistic matchmaking protection in the first place during any point of their career usually end up like this, conor with 1 win in years, ronda being double KOed over to wwe, tony looking at a potential 4 Ls in a row… the list goes on.

UFC has had a lot of people of their version of the protected space that bellator has MVP in… except UFC won’t put you back in (their)can crush town if you fold once they finally throw you to the wolves.

 

[TimeToTrain]

He’s a true mixed martial artist. Spends a lot of time training other martial arts like Wing Chun and finds moves that are not useful in a fight.

 

[Stop Being Greedy]

Yes, been saying it for years. He has an opportunistic submission game primarily consisting of triangles and darces and that's literally it. He wasn't even fighting the hands on that heel hook. There are no fundamentals to his grappling.

It's what happens for most guys based out of 10th planet and that's why all of Eddie's best grapplers had black belts from somewhere else before they went to him. It's not a complete system or approach to the ground game.

I can remember years ago people seriously debating if Ferguson's Jiu-Jitsu was better than Nate Diaz's and just being blown away by it. This isn't revisionist history. Ferguson has great submissions but isn't an elite grappler. You see plenty of guys like that on the mat. You have to watch out for a few of their attacks but when they can't get them, their entire game falls apart.

 

[lsa]

No way man I edited it instantly. Way faster than you ever could have quoted me. You edited my quote to fit yur narrative. Nice try

I have no dog in this fight but dude... check your own post..

snugglecakes, Today at 1:35 AM
Last edited: Today at 2:01 AM
Thats based on my time zone. Took you 26min to edit..
Your post clearly are time stamped with post and edit time.
There is no argument to be made here.

 

[old school 2]

That was me editing sumfin else mang…1 of my 10 edits before that caught it first thanks for helpin but now that we’ve seen more of tony, what about the matter at hand…

maybe the Kevin Holland concede the takedown n hope you win off yur back not being the bes strategy is the/an issue. Tony fought this way even during his win streak. Tony’s lack of power wrestler opponents without good cardio and submission defense helped get tony this far… but it’s starting to smell like the same ol “ufc favorable matchmaking to push a hopeful star” issue more than a “he’s getting older” issue.

Once you’re at the top you can’t get stylistically protected anymore and then we see where your career goes from there… n for the most part these types that needed stylistic matchmaking protection in the first place during any point of their career usually end up like this, conor with 1 win in years, ronda being double KOed over to wwe, tony looking at a potential 4 Ls in a row… the list goes on.

UFC has had a lot of people of their version of the protected space that bellator has MVP in… except UFC won’t put you back in (their)can crush town if you fold once they finally throw you to the wolves.

I won’t say Tony was protected but he had not fought a serious challenge since RDA as he wanted Khabib only without taking the risk of the young hungry lions. He has absolutely slowed in time and is no longer a top 10 as number 10 just beat him easily. The question is could he have beaten Khabib, Conor, Dustin or Justin 3 years ago and I have been saying nope for 3 years. Like Cowboy he is a entertaining fighter and must see tv but neither of them will be top 10’s again and never champions (undisputed.)

 

[fg1985bg]

Again , it isn’t difficult at all for most people to know who is better. 29-0 > 30-8 no matter how you try to spin it.

Who is debating on who is the better fighter or the better record? I’m saying the grappling styles or too different to compare or tell who’s better then who. They have two totally different types. No one is spinning anything.

Also, yes...Khabib has the better record and he’s the LW Goat. He’s also mentally stronger then Charles and more consistent when he steps into that cage. No one is denying any of that. I don’t see how a fighting record has anything to do with the simple fact that they both approach grappling from much different perspectives.

 

[old school 2]

Who is debating on who is the better fighter or the better record? I’m saying the grappling styles or too different to compare or tell who’s better then who. They have two totally different types. No one is spinning anything.

Also, yes...Khabib has the better record and he’s the LW Goat. He’s also mentally stronger then Charles and more consistent when he steps into that cage. No one is denying any of that. I don’t see how a fighting record has anything to do with the simple fact that they both approach grappling from much different perspectives.

Khabib has the better top game and unlike Olivera , nobody can out wrestle him at LW to see his bottom game as he is simply more dominant than Olivera or any LW in history .

 

[Sean Rhino]

It was overrated with all those talks of "Tony beats Khabib from the bottom" last year.

 

[Agnawedbone]

an opinion shared by pretty much everyone with any knowledge of ground fighting.

the writing had been on the wall for ferguson for years. he was getting dropped in fights left and right before gaethje beat the shit out of him. he had been thoroughly outgrappled by lee until kevin gassed. he never once shot a takedown on anyone in the past decade, for all his wrestling credentials he only used it defensively.

but people don't really understand jiu jitsu so they think the guy who spams triangles from the guard and goes for whacky submissions is world class. they don't really understand standup either, so they think the guy throwing spinning elbows is a world class striker. tony was, and always will be, very dangerous due to his unorthodox style. but he will also always take a beating from people with solid fundamentals who have the cardio fitting a top contender.

his jiu jitsu is only overrated if you have no clue what you're looking at and thought that he was world class. for the rest of us, he was a guy with an active guard and poor guard retention... and that guy would've been annihilated by khabib.

imagine actually believing this nonsense.

ferguson is 37 years old. that's it. he missed his window at the top due to bullshit backroom politics and some bad luck. it's too late now. too many years, too many injuries. but look at all these clueless motherfuckers coming out of the woodwork using it as a excuse to pretend this is all he ever was.

it iss always like this.
new year, new decade, same old fuckin shertards.

 

[Sean Rhino]

Also people don't acknowledge the fact that most of his subs came from rocked fighters.

Yeah, all of Tony's submission wins came from his high-volume pressure style of striking, which is by far the best part of his game. They either got rocked, or they slowed down significantly from the pressure.

Fighters he submitted:

• Mike Rio and Gleison Tibau – got rocked from Tony's hands.
• Trujillo, Barboza, Vannata, Lee – gassed out from the striking.

I mean, his ground game is great if he wants to finish the job against an almost finished fighter, but not great if he primarily wants to use it against a fresh fighter.

 

[randomg1t]

imagine actually believing this nonsense.

ferguson is 37 years old. that's it. he missed his window at the top due to bullshit backroom politics and some bad luck. it's too late now. too many years, too many injuries. but look at all these clueless motherfuckers coming out of the woodwork using it as a excuse to pretend this is all he ever was.

it iss always like this.
new year, new decade, same old fuckin shertards.

oh fuck off. you can go dig through my posts from years ago regarding him, i've been saying the same thing since the kevin lee fight.

he got knocked down like 3 times vs lando, he got dropped by lee, dropped by pettis. he's been getting dropped left and right since 2016, when he was what, 32? he also got taken down and thoroughly outgrappled for a round by kevin lee. passed his guard, mounted him, the whole nine yards.

tony ferguson got this far because he's a tough motherfucker, not because he's a good technician. morons look at his lack of basics and call it "unorthodox". oh look, he throws spinning shit standing up! he's an amazing striker! look, he throws triangle after triangle from his guard and tries to elbow his opponent from the bottom, surely he has world class jiu jitsu!

so yeah, age definitely plays a factor. but the beatdown from gaethje was predictable, as was being outgrappled by oliveira and dariush. i expected him to defend the takedowns better from do bronx and benny, but if they were going to the ground, it was pretty clear he'd be getting owned if he wound up on his back.

 

[snotflakes]

Fighter lost. Let's all run to sherdog to say how over-rated he is.