It's time to accept Saenchai as the greatest

Cocakillbana

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In 2016 it should no longer be said Samart Payakaroon is the greatest fighter the sport has seen. He's had 25+ years at the top, but it's time the Muay Thai world recognizes the new king. Rare it is that a new #1 emerges in any sport with many decades of competitive history. Let's celebrate this man!



Don't confuse greatest with best. Was Samart in 1982 better than Saenchai at any time in his career? Perhaps, but I'm not arguing this. Roy Jones Jr is viewed as one of the BEST boxers ever, but he's not appearing often on top 10 or even top 25 GREATEST lists. With greatest you have to consider longevity, accomplishments, quality of competition, consistency, dominance and all that stuff. Now let's look at the brilliant and unprecedented career of Saenchai and why he is the GOAT.

Saenchai became a top fighter in 1995 and is STILL a top fighter. Over TWENTY years Saenchai has been top tier. Yes, he's retired from the competitive Thai circuit, but it's not because he can't compete anymore. Even in his last fight with Petmorakot he had to dry out to 129 pounds and give up 2 pounds. Maybe no Muay Thai fighter in history can compare to Saenchai in the durability department. In 1996 he beat a legitimate all time great fighter in Thongchai Tor Silachai and today in 2016 he's still got it. Hardly any erosion. This does not happen in Muay Thai. It defies everything. The real once ever! On the other hand Samart became a top fighter in about 1979-1980, and maintained that until 1984 before going to boxing. In 1988 he returned and continued his success, but retired in 1989 after a despondent performance against Wangchannoi. He was dunzo, didn't have it anymore. Generously that's 7 years Samart had as top tier. Saenchai has resided at the top for THREE times longer! Come on!

Samart and Saenchai have all the accomplishments. There's no clear advantage for either. Awards and titles are cool, but you can really tell how great someone is by the their reputation. Saenchai's reputation is a different level. Below are Saenchai's wins where weight can be verified. This starts in 2003 and you can see not once has he been given a weight advantage. However, I'm confident this goes beyond 2003 and that he hasn't had a weight advantage this century. What this says is that the promoters and the betting interest have never viewed any of these opponents to be better than Saenchai at any time. Not one. It also says Saenchai didn't slump. In order to maintain this sort of streak of not getting a weight advantage you have to win. I've never heard of anything like this for another fighter. To consistently give 3+ pounds to elite fighters that are already a lot bigger than you, and to do it over 12+ years is completely nuts. Remember, this is the ultimate young persons sport. All the superlatives! I mean, I'm sure Samart gave up weight and fought bigger (Dieselnoi) opponents in his day, but it cannot be compared to this.

Ronachai Naratrikun (3 pounds)
Puja Sor Suwanee (2 pounds)
Bovy Sor Udomson (5 pounds)
Yodbuangarm Luknanyai (2 pounds)
Kem Sitsongpeenong (2 pounds)
Singdam Kiatmuu9 (even)
Kongipop Petyindee (5 pounds)
Orono Wor Petpun (3 pounds)
Singdam Kiatmuu9 (3 pounds)
Nopparat Kiatkamtorn (3 pounds)
Singdam Kiatmuu9 (4 pounds)
Nong-O Sit Or (even)
Duansompomg Kor Sapaotong (3 pounds)
Jaroenchai Kesagym (5 pounds)
Jomthong Chuwattana (3+ pounds)
Petmankong Kaiyanghadao (4 pounds)
Orono Wor Petpun (2 pounds)
Wuttidet Lukprabart (2 pounds)
Saenchainoi Pumpanmuang (3 pounds)
Saenchainoi Pumpanmuang (3 pounds)
Nong-O Sit Or (3 pounds)
Petboonchu FA Group (3 pounds)
Petboonchu/Sagetdao (even)
Nong-O Sit Or (2 pounds)
Nong-O Sit Or (2 pounds)
Sagetdao Petpayathai (even)
Superbon Lukjaimasaivairee (likely 2+ pounds)
Petboonchu FA Group (2 pounds)
Nong-O Sit Or (3 pounds)
Kongsak Sitboonmee (1 pound)
Petboonchu FA Group (2 pounds)
Sagetdao Petpayathai (even)
Penek Sitnumnoi (1.5 pounds)
Singdam Kiatmuu9 (even)
Kongsak Sitboonmee (2 pounds)
Kongsak Sitboonmee (2 pounds)
Kongsak Sitboonmee (2 pounds)
Nong-O Sit Or (3 pounds)

And in this time, Saenchai only lost twice when the weights were equal. First to Singdam Kiatmuu9 in 2005 at 131 pounds, and then in 2014 to Petboonchu FA Group at 133 pounds. Again, his reputation is on full display in that 2005 Singdam fight. Saenchai would go on to fight in the future at 122 pounds, but they looked at him so highly they had him go up to 131 to fight one of the very best! Whether he had to lose more weight than an opponent or go up and fighter bigger guys, he almost always had the weight disadvantage in some way, but has still been the the most successful and consistent fighter of the 21st century.

But remember, he was killing it in the previous century! At least three eras and three decades, including the backend of the golden era. Attachai Fairtex was great and Saenchai is 4-0-1 against him. Nungubon Sitlerchai and Thongchai Tor Silachai? Certified ATG's! Beat 'em. Neungsiam Fairtex, Pet Ek Sitajaopho 2X, Nongbee Kaityongyut 4X and future Olympic gold medalist Wijan Ponlid. Safe to say he has another 20+ really good wins from 1995-2002. And altogether he's beaten 7 winners of the sports writers fighter of the year. Thongchai, Singdam, Nong-O, Jomthong, Wuttidet, Kongsak and Penek.

Oh, and basically in his spare time he may have accumulated the best international resume of any fighter. 52-1 against opponents who are not Thai and a few wins over good Thais to go with it. 130, 135, 140, 147 it doesn't matter.

Fabio Pinca
Liam Harrison 3X
Tetsuya Yamato
Yetkin Ozkul 2X
Mehdi Zatout
Damien Alamos
Houcine Bennoui
Rafi Singpatong
Andrei Kulebin
Victor Nagbe 2X
Massaro Glunder
Jose Neto X2
Vahid Shahbazi 2X
Singdam Kiatmuu9
Pakon PKSaenchai
Diesellek Uddongmuang

Crown him!

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he was also the king of the rematch and never lost 2 in a row to any fighter in his career i believe. His ability to make adjustments mid fight is something we hardly ever see also. He has been extremely durable too averaging 10 fights a year which is amazing at his age especially against the quality competition he faced in the last couple of years before quitting the stadiums
 
Out of curiosity, how do Apidej's accomplishments stack up? I cant find much info on him.
 
Certainly no arguments here. Saenchai is the GOAT.
 
Agreed,solid reasons to name him the GOAT,but Dielsenoi as Samart have to be remembered as one of the greatest ever too
 
Great piece and absolutely no argument. He's the GOAT and you brilliantly made your point.
Plus every other Thais nakmuays keep saying it whenever they're interwiewed (in siamfightmag.com)
 
I agree but I am very biased having trained with Saenchai for years so... I'd also like to add that he's a really nice guy too!
 
Huh? Everyone knows that Buakaw, Kevin Ross and John Wayne Parr are the real GOATs of Muay Thai. You're a crackpot, Coca!
 
Saenchai is really fortunate that he naturally has a fighting style that takes very little damage each fight.
 
Huh? Everyone knows that Buakaw, Kevin Ross and John Wayne Parr are the real GOATs of Muay Thai. You're a crackpot, Coca!
Good point.

Kru Phil Nurse is also the GOAT trainer.
 
Agree, been saying for years that he's more accomplished than Samart
 
Out of curiosity, how do Apidej's accomplishments stack up? I cant find much info on him.

Not sure exactly what titles he won, but from the late 50's into the early 60's he was the most popular fighter and maybe the best.

After a middling boxing career he came back to Muay Thai in the late 60's and fought for a couple years before retiring. Tried to make a comeback in 1975 but he didn't too well.

A very similar to career to Samart.
 
If you guys were playing devils advocate, what would Samart's case for being GOAT be?
 
yes and yes. and he's 36 this year....yet i can't imagine the day he will retire.
 
Saenchai beat Nungubon, but lost to him also Nungubon was in early thirties then, Saenchai beat Thongchai but was koed by him also, don't remember Samart getting koed, but could have been. Also the level of competition in the two eras not the same, Saenchai accomplished more for a longer period of time though that is clear. Think petboonchu was finally the one that ended Saenchai's record of never losing a rematch if I remember right, not long before Saenchai retired from the stadiums
 
one of the best mt fighters ever but style wise not really my kind of guy.
 
Saenchai beat Nungubon, but lost to him also Nungubon was in early thirties then, Saenchai beat Thongchai but was koed by him also, don't remember Samart getting koed, but could have been. Also the level of competition in the two eras not the same, Saenchai accomplished more for a longer period of time though that is clear. Think petboonchu was finally the one that ended Saenchai's record of never losing a rematch if I remember right, not long before Saenchai retired from the stadiums

Read somewhere when making this thread that Saenchai has been KO'd 3 times in his career. The source said the other two happened when he was like 12 and 15, or something like that.

Is the competition difference overblown? In just about everything the previous generation was better and the same before that. In 20 years I just picture Saenchai, Sam-A and others talking about how the that generation is crap and that the sport was better back when they fought. I'm not saying the fighters weren't better in the 80's, but it could the popularity of the sport at that time made all those fighters seem so much more special.

To me it's more about how the fights are, not necessarily the talent being so much weaker. You obviously know a lot more than me, but the issues were quite different then I'd think. Did the gambling interest have so much power and basically make up how the fights would play out? Was losing a fight (slipping, being off balanced, grabbed with being damaged) as easy as it is today? That sort of stuff.

I mean, I think if today was like 25 years ago the fights would look largely the same and the fighters would appear to be better because the fights themselves would generally be better. Bring those fighters from then to now and they would largely conform to how it is today. Just my opinion.
 
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Read somewhere when making this thread that Saenchai has been KO'd 3 times in his career. The source said the other two happened when he was like 12 and 15, or something like that.

Is the competition difference overblown? In just about everything the previous generation was better and the same before that. In 20 years I just picture Saenchai, Sam-A and others talking about how the that generation is crap and that the sport was better back when they fought. I'm not saying the fighters weren't better in the 80's, but it could the popularity of the sport at that time made all those fighters seem so much more special.

To me it's more about how the fights are, not necessarily the talent being so much weaker. You obviously know a lot more than me, but the issues were quite different then I'd think. Did the gambling interest have so much power and basically make up how the fights would play out? Was losing a fight (slipping, being off balanced, grabbed with being damaged) as easy as it is today? That sort of stuff.

I mean, I think if today was like 25 years ago the fights would look largely the same and the fighters would appear to be better because the fights themselves would generally be better. Bring those fighters from then to now and they would largely conform to how it is today. Just my opinion.

that sounds silly to me? fighters lose a fight just because of that?
 
Read somewhere when making this thread that Saenchai has been KO'd 3 times in his career. The source said the other two happened when he was like 12 and 15, or something like that.

Is the competition difference overblown? In just about everything the previous generation was better and the same before that. In 20 years I just picture Saenchai, Sam-A and others talking about how the that generation is crap and that the sport was better back when they fought. I'm not saying the fighters weren't better in the 80's, but it could the popularity of the sport at that time made all those fighters seem so much more special.

To me it's more about how the fights are, not necessarily the talent being so much weaker. You obviously know a lot more than me, but the issues were quite different then I'd think. Did the gambling interest have so much power and basically make up how the fights would play out? Was losing a fight (slipping, being off balanced, grabbed with being damaged) as easy as it is today? That sort of stuff.

I mean, I think if today was like 25 years ago the fights would look largely the same and the fighters would appear to be better because the fights themselves would generally be better. Bring those fighters from then to now and they would largely conform to how it is today. Just my opinion.
I wouldn't say it was overblown, but also comparing the strength in depth back then, there were so many more top draw fighters, if you look at nowadays you have kids like Ginsanglek running out of credible opponents at 100 lbs weight, Prajantcvhai almost got no one left to fight and he's at around 118, the likes of petboonchu, Yodwicha etc... you wouldn't have had that back in the olden era there were so many more fighters, they were getting paid twice as much back then too there are so many more options now days and the money is that much lower the numbers of top fighters has dropped dramatically, so you are going to find the really great fighters stand out that bit easier, I've said it before a few times that Saenchai was probably born a little too late in terms of his stadium career, but chances are if he was around in the golden era he would have been even better than he is, due to the level of competition for him being that bit higher.

You bring up a very good point there about the different issues of the times, that can make these kind of threads extremely subjective, with there so much more influence now with the gamblers, there were bigger crowds back then and more people gambling, but they didn't have the same power as they do now over the way fights are judged, it really was a different sport in many ways with how the fights played out, I think the fighters were a bit more well rounded back then, where they are more strength orientated now to a degree.

Anyway its surely about time for another sherdog greatest Muaythai fighter of all time thread, 16 pages of people posting, Hoost, Dekkers, Saenchai, Buakaw over and over :p :D
 
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