Joanna got one more fight in her UFC contract, wants BIG money to re-sign

[Mr Wings]

I gotta be that guy but...

Re-sign*

It had to be done.

 

[You Will Vote For Dreyga]

It's not my cynicism. Only one agent/manager testified in the UFC's defense for the lawsuit, and that was Ali. If an agent is effectively arguing in court that their clients are paid enough, then that agent is fucking over their clients. Period.

Or he generally believes what he is saying

 

[Mr Wings]

She can always be a movie star. A cave creature in the next Descent film. She just has to fight Weli first.

Looks pretty good to me, dumb dumb.



Meanwhile, you:

 

[avenue94]

Or he generally believes what he is saying

If your agent is publicly saying that you are being paid enough for your services and toeing the same line as your employer, fire them immediately. They aren't doing their job.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

She had very little leverage as champ. What actions would you advise a champ to take or not take to get a better deal? The main tool for any athlete is driving up their pay is free agency, which simply doesn't exist for mma champions.

Dude you bean talking out your ass this whole thread. With the exception of a Conor, Champions are the only ones that have a great negotiation power. You keep stating champion clause but being champion IS a bigger chip the UFC needs champions to defend and fill 12 PPV a year. We've seen countless Champs play this game and cash in how you can say something as dumb as champions have less leverage is a laugh. Champions can sit out, turn down an opponent, and turn down a fight date. You saying "maybe the ufc strips them" well the ufc doesn't want to ruin the legitimately of the belt over a pay bump alot more and have a paper champion.

 

[avenue94]

Dude you bean talking out your ass this whole thread. With the exception of a Conor, Champions are the only ones that have a great negotiation power. You keep stating champion clause but being champion IS a bigger chip the UFC needs champions to defend and fill 12 PPV a year. We've seen countless Champs play this game and cash in how you can say something as dumb as champions have less leverage is a laugh.

I said champs take a hit to bargaining power when they pick up a belt. That is the entire reason the champion's clause exists in mma but no other sport. Unless you think the UFC and Bellator incorporate a champion's clause for other reasons?

You saying "maybe the ufc strips them" well the ufc doesn't want to ruin the legitimately of the belt over a pay bump alot more and have a paper champion.

Why yes, the same company that has created interim belts out of the wazoo in years past is concerned over belt legitimacy. Yup. Makes sense. Which is why Dustin Poirier was one of the two people fighting for the belt this past weekend.

 

[You Will Vote For Dreyga]

If your agent is publicly saying that you are being paid enough for your services and toeing the same line as your employer, fire them immediately. They aren't doing their job.

This is a strawman

He didn’t say that. YOU DID.

He said he believed keeping pay private allowed him to negotiate better deals for his clients. It is possible that he genuinely believes that.

Granted he may be wrong that belief. The point I’m making it’s very possible he may innocent of all the things you are accusing him. That May looking at this in cynical light and treating that cynicism as fact

 

[SHAZAM]

If it wasn't for her accomplishments and what she did in the division, Rose and Weili probably wouldn't even be stars. She was an exciting champ too. Definitely deserves big boobs and big pay days and big fights and big.

 

[azhiker]

Yes it does sound stupid. I agree with you JJ. Then go make more money elsewhere without risking your head.

 

[avenue94]

He didn’t say that. YOU DID.

If you say that while testifying in defense of the UFC in a lawsuit accusing them of suppressing fighter pay...you're arguing that fighters are paid enough. That's what Ali did. Not to mention the fact that Ali worked for WSOF at the same time he was representing fighters in that organization isn't exactly a glowing character endorsement.

He said he believed keeping pay private allowed him to negotiate better deals for his clients. It is possible that he genuinely believes that.

Granted he may be wrong that belief. The point I’m making it’s very possible he may innocent of all the things you are accusing him. That May looking at this in cynical light and treating that cynicism as fact

Yeah...if he genuinely believes that, that's the equivalent of flat earth stupidity. Ali isn't that dumb. It's basic econ...

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

I said champs take a hit to bargaining power when they pick up a belt. That is the entire reason the champion's clause exists in mma but no other sport. Unless you think the UFC and Bellator incorporate a champion's clause for other reasons?

Why yes, the same company that has created interim belts out of the wazoo in years past is concerned over belt legitimacy. Yup. Makes sense. Which is why Dustin Poirier was one of the two people fighting for the belt this past weekend.

Because they don't want the champion to leave. It doesn’t give them more leverage.
The interim titles prove how silly you are all those were made because they didn't want to strip the real champion who was sitting out. Name the last time they took a belt from the undisputed champion dumbass? Stipe, Woodley, Usman, jones, Johnson, I could look up more champions who used this leverage for more money and it wasn't because they were in a weaker position.


Dustin who's never been the undisputed champ what a stupid thing to point out.

 

[brackis1]

She deserves something gracious. Being fair, to her, should be some pretty substantial money.

Joanna has consistently delivered for the UFC. She carried a division for some time, has been active on social media, promotes fights well, did TUF, has a solid fan base, and gives us fights like the one vs Zhang (which was recent).

Send her into retirement comfortable, she earned it for all the hard work.

I dunno man, that sounds awful generous.
Wouldn't you rather that money go to someone like an investor suit who needs their 5th mansion and was born into wealth such that accumulating investment dividend is a mindless game of ego passed down intergenerationally?

Can't let these uppity fighting poors get too much of a taste. Ya know?

 

[avenue94]

Because they don't want the champion to leave. It doesn’t give them more leverage.

LolWhat. There is a clause that prevents champions from leaving but you are arguing it doesn't give the promoter more leverage. Do you understand how silly of a statement that is?

Decades of economic research points to free agency as the biggest driver of athlete pay, ergo that is the biggest source of leverage for athletes when negotiating. Champions in mma do not have that leverage.

The interim titles prove how silly you are all those were made because they didn't want to strip the real champion who was sitting out.

Ah yes, Conor, that very legitimate champion, as well as GSP. Oh and don't forget Bisping, who solidified his claim to the MW title with a win over #1 contender Dan Henderson.

Stipe, Woodley, Usman, jones, Johnson, I could look up more champions who used this leverage for more money and it wasn't because they were in a weaker position

Again, I said they take a hit to bargaining power, that's literally the point of a champion's clause. Also, why mention Johnson, who vocally expressed his displeasure with his pay as champion to no avail because he couldn't test free agency?

Dustin who's never been the undisputed champ what a stupid thing to point out.

I'm pointing out that the UFC only cares about legitimacy in terms of making money. So save us the "oh my god the UFC would never do ___ because of the purity of their belts."

 

[You Will Vote For Dreyga]

If you say that while testifying in defense of the UFC in a lawsuit accusing them of suppressing fighter pay...you're arguing that fighters are paid enough. That's what Ali did.

That’s your assessment. It’s still hasn’t been proven that UFC has done anything. And you are still misrepresenting what he said.

Look I’m nit saying you are wrong. But your inpretation makes a lot of very cynical assumptions

Yeah...if he genuinely believes that, that's the equivalent of flat earth stupidity. Ali isn't that dumb. It's basic econ...

There have been long ongoing debates about pay transparency. Even fighters themselves have stated that they don’t want their pay public. It’s not exactly a black and white issue

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

LolWhat. There is a clause that prevents champions from leaving but you are arguing it doesn't give the promoter more leverage. Do you understand how silly of a statement that is?

Decades of economic research points to free agency as the biggest driver of athlete pay, ergo that is the biggest source of leverage for athletes when negotiating. Champions in mma do not have that leverage.

Ah yes, Conor, that very legitimate champion, as well as GSP. Oh and don't forget Bisping, who solidified his claim to the MW title with a win over #1 contender Dan Henderson.

Again, I said they take a hit to bargaining power, that's literally the point of a champion's clause. Also, why mention Johnson, who vocally expressed his displeasure with his pay as champion to no avail because he couldn't test free agency?

I'm pointing out that the UFC only cares about legitimacy in terms of making money. So save us the "oh my god the UFC would never do ___ because of the purity of their belts."

All you do is parrot that same dumb line champions have less leverage because clause bs.
Yeah Johnson was vocal negotiating getting substantial pay increases AS CHAMPION because he was champion the ufc would have told him to fuck off if he wasn't and as soon as he lost they got rid of him.

Again if a ufc fighter becomes champion that's the BEST negotiation strength most will ever have and if you understand that you don't understand the industry.

 

[avenue94]

That’s your assessment. It’s still hasn’t been proven that UFC has done anything. And you are still misrepresenting what he said.

Look I’m nit saying you are wrong. But your inpretation makes a lot of very cynical assumptions

What other possible explanation is there for an agent /manager to testify in the UFC's defense in the fighter pay lawsuit, where the UFC's defense boils down to we pay enough money.

There have been long ongoing debates about pay transparency. Even fighters themselves have stated that they don’t want their pay public. It’s not exactly a black and white issue

Sure, but that flies in the face of everything we know about athlete pay, not to mention basic econ. I'd kind of expect an agent to know that, especially the biggest one. How would hiding pay even improve fighter pay or increase fighter leverage in negotiations?

 

[avenue94]

All you do is parrot that same dumb line champions have less leverage because clause bs.

I mean, I keep on telling you because you seem to be ignorant of sports economics and what drives athlete pay.

Again if a ufc fighter becomes champion that's the BEST negotiation strength most will ever have and if you understand that you don't understand the industry.

And yet, by wage share, champions are very likely the worst off. They generate the most revenue and capture the smallest share of it. Again, all I said is the belt and champion's clause eliminates free agency and heavily impacts negotiating power. Not sure why that's controversial when, again, that's basic econ.

 

[You Will Vote For Dreyga]

What other possible explanation is there for an agent /manager to testify in the UFC's defense in the fighter pay lawsuit, where the UFC's defense boils down to we pay enough money.

First the defense isn’t that not exactly “we pay enough” rather we haven’t done anything anti-competitive. And he may actually believe that they have treated him fairly in their negotiations.

Sure, but that flies in the face of everything we know about athlete pay, not to mention basic econ. I'd kind of expect an agent to know that, especially the biggest one. How would hiding pay even improve fighter pay or increase fighter leverage in negotiations?

Look I’m not an agent. It’s possible there are things that he knows about this particular issue that we don’t through his years of negotiating for athlete pay

Also I’m not saying you are wrong just there you possibly may inpretating certain things through a very cynical lens

 

[avenue94]

First the defense isn’t that not exactly “we pay enough” rather we haven’t done anything anti-competitive.

The UFC's expert and other filings explicitly say the UFC pays enough, both compared to competitors and other sports. The entire case is over fighter pay, arguing anything else is disingenuous.

Look I’m not an agent. It’s possible there are things that he knows about this particular issue that we don’t through his years of negotiating for athlete pay

Again...that would fly in the face of pretty much all the economic literature on what drives athlete pay. Not to mention basic economics. There's a reason baseball, basketball and football pay is largely public. Ali can't be that stupid to not realize that and have gotten this far in his profession.

 

[You Will Vote For Dreyga]

The UFC's expert and other filings explicitly say the UFC pays enough, both compared to competitors and other sports. The entire case is over fighter pay, arguing anything else is disingenuous.

It more complicated than that. The case is about whether or not the UFC has used Anti-Competitive practices to suppress fighter pay not “are fighters getting paid enough”— that’s oversimplification and somewhat inaccurate

And the arguments being used in court by the UFC are trying to prove that their business practices are not anti-competive

Again...that would fly in the face of pretty much all the economic literature on what drives athlete pay. Not to mention basic economics. There's a reason baseball, basketball and football pay is largely public. Ali can't be that stupid to not realize that and have gotten this far in his profession.

Or he might be more familiar with the situation than you are