Social John Cena profusely apologizes to Chinese netizens and China for calling Taiwan a country

You have a very loose definition of the word 'defending'.
John Cena is not a political actor. He is a company man. He is staying out of the politics of a foreign nation by just apologizing and bowing out of the conversation.
That is not "defending" Chinese nationalists. It isn't "shitting on" Taiwan. It's staying out of it.
The framing of your whole argument makes it impossible to have a straight, matter of fact conversation about China, because if someone is not shitting on China, then that means they are "defending" them in your eyes.

How China treats its minorities, and the relationship between China and Taiwan are entirely different subjects. This issue with Cena is about Taiwan.

There are only 15 nations that recognize Taiwan as a sovereign state, and the United States isn't one of those nations.
At the end of the day, John Cena isn't going to go to war with the state of China. He isn't going to tank his career and bring that heat down on him, Hollywood, and the rest of America.
As a matter of fact, it might not even be good for the people of Taiwan for him to open his mouth about it because it could provoke China into actually acting. And we all know that the US isn't going to go to war over Taiwan.
Any serious action and discussion needs to be had by serious people. Lebron James, John Cena, Snookie, and Ja Rule have no business yapping about the internal politics of foreign states.

By agreeing with the Chinese position that Taiwan is not a country, he is defending them. By apologizing to the Chinese nationalists for calling Taiwan a country, he is shitting on Taiwan.

Cena is pandering to China, a regime that is genociding minorities and being imperialistic.

China is not going to invade just because some c-lister like Cena says Taiwan is a country.

So what if China boycotts Hollywood? Hollywood should boycott China. People like Cena are part of the problem, because they are the ones enabling regimes like the CCP to carry on doing business.
 
By agreeing with the Chinese position that Taiwan is not a country, he is defending them. By apologizing to the Chinese nationalists for calling Taiwan a country, he is shitting on Taiwan.

Cena is pandering to China, a regime that is genociding minorities and being imperialistic.

China is not going to invade just because some c-lister like Cena says Taiwan is a country.

So what if China boycotts Hollywood? Hollywood should boycott China. People like Cena are part of the problem, because they are the ones enabling regimes like the CCP to carry on doing business.

No, he isn't. You're being obtuse.
He is staying out of the debate by sticking with what the rest of the world has already decided. America has not recognized Taiwan as a sovereign nation. So why aren't you going after them? Or France, or Canada, or Japan, or India? Why is it on WWE wrestler John Cena to fight China?
"People like him" ain't shit in this fight.
The issue with China and Taiwan specifically is more complicated than the other issues where the Uighuars are being blatantly violated. It wouldn't even make any sense for Cena to fight on this particular issue about China's territorial claims unless China was actively doing some sort human rights abuses on the Taiwanese right now.
You want to lump the China/Taiwan situation in with all of China's other bullshit, and that doesn't make any sense. Your ONLY argument is "Fuck China". Sorry, but that is a tard argument.

That "C-lister" is attached to a very big movie franchise with a lot of other famous actors, made and distributed by ginormous production companies. The media picks up Cena's comments and they would attach him to all of that.
The American news and the Taiwanese news pick it up and then China is going to definitely address it.
Yeah, it is very possible for China to take some extreme measures in that scenario.


The issue with China is so much bigger than John Fucking Cena and Hollywood.
Nothing with China is going to change until America and the rest of the world change their own ways and their relationship with China.
We've been in bed with "evil China" this whole damn time, so it's nonsense to keep acting like we are shocked by their behavior, or that Lebron and Cena are supposed to be the ones to lead our foreign policy.
All of our shit is made in China, and we're talking about movies? We talking about practice? Get serious.
 
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This is what China does to keep itself in the "good". The money always wins.
 
No, he isn't. You're being obtuse.
He is staying out of the debate by sticking with what the rest of the world has already decided. America has not recognized Taiwan as a sovereign nation. So why aren't you going after them? Or France, or Canada, or Japan, or India? Why is it on WWE wrestler John Cena to fight China?
"People like him" ain't shit in this fight.
The issue with China and Taiwan specifically is more complicated than the other issues where the Uighuars are being blatantly violated. It wouldn't even make any sense for Cena to fight on this particular issue about China's territorial claims unless China was actively doing some sort human rights abuses on the Taiwanese right now.
You want to lump the China/Taiwan situation in with all of China's other bullshit, and that doesn't make any sense. Your ONLY argument is "Fuck China". Sorry, but that is a tard argument.

That "C-lister" is attached to a very big movie franchise with a lot of other famous actors, made and distributed by ginormous production companies. The media picks up Cena's comments and they would attach him to all of that.
The American news and the Taiwanese news pick it up and then China is going to definitely address it.
Yeah, it is very possible for China to take some extreme measures in that scenario.


The issue with China is so much bigger than John Fucking Cena and Hollywood.
Nothing with China is going to change until America and the rest of the world change their own ways and their relationship with China.
We've been in bed with "evil China" this whole damn time, so it's nonsense to keep acting like we are shocked by their behavior, or that Lebron and Cena are supposed to be the ones to lead our foreign policy.
All of our shit is made in China, and we're talking about movies? We talking about practice? Get serious.

He is not staying out of the debate, he proactively pandered to Chinese nationalists. Staying out of the issue would be him saying nothing at all, as opposed to the grovelling pandering he engaged in.

Just because I criticize Cena does not mean I am giving others a pass, infact I have repeatedly said the US should decouple from China. I've also said the winter Olympics should be boycotted. You realize one can be critical of Cena and also be critical of others who enable China?

Cena pandering to the CCP and Chinese nationalists is like someone who panders to Apartheid South Africa, then someone like you saying that they aren't at fault. If an athelete or celeb had pandered to Apartheid South Africa, they would have been called out on it, and be accused of enabling the regime. Why should people who pander to and engage with the CCP get a pass?

No one expects Cena or LeBron to lead the anti CCP movement, that is just a strawman argument. What they can do is refuse to pander to the regime.
 
After departing WWE, John Cena moved to China to make commercials. He even makes videos about local shopping plazas and getting ready for a local holiday. He took the time to learn some of the language.

The guy worked hard, I'm not going to hate on the guy.

This is no different than Billy Zane being a token American actror in Turkish films where the bad guy is American or Frank Grillo playing a part in Wolf Warrior.

WWE is a true international brand that introduced him to the overseas market (and vice versa).

It's not like John Cena is a policy maker.

TL;DR
John Cena > Max Baucus
 
He is not staying out of the debate, he proactively pandered to Chinese nationalists. Staying out of the issue would be him saying nothing at all, as opposed to the grovelling pandering he engaged in.

Just because I criticize Cena does not mean I am giving others a pass, infact I have repeatedly said the US should decouple from China. I've also said the winter Olympics should be boycotted. You realize one can be critical of Cena and also be critical of others who enable China?

Cena pandering to the CCP and Chinese nationalists is like someone who panders to Apartheid South Africa, then someone like you saying that they aren't at fault. If an athelete or celeb had pandered to Apartheid South Africa, they would have been called out on it, and be accused of enabling the regime. Why should people who pander to and engage with the CCP get a pass?

No one expects Cena or LeBron to lead the anti CCP movement, that is just a strawman argument. What they can do is refuse to pander to the regime.

Apartheid South Africa is not analogous in this situation.
Again, you keep trying to put up China's complete human rights record on trial, when this controversy was specifically about China and Taiwan's dispute over sovereignty. Not about China's human rights records.

Cena obviously accidentally stumbled into that debate. It's clear as day what his intent was when he said what he said, and you're acting like he was trying to make a political statement either way. All he was trying to do was to clean up the mess he made and walk right back out of that barn.
His "pandering" was to not stir up anymore controversy.

You ignored my point about how that controversy is not even necessarily a good thing for Taiwan. And Cena is one of the last people that should intentionally be taking actions that would provoke China.
We know damn well that if Cena had said "Yeah, Taiwan doesn't belong to China. It's its own nation. Fuck China", there would be consequences for that, that would go beyond just money. China would not let that go. And the Taiwanese people could've gotten the brunt of that anger to prove a point.

If your stance is that Hollywood actors should never do business with China because of their human rights abuses, then make that case, but you're also going to have to say that about every other industry that we have working with China. Governments are going to have to actually stand by the principles they claim to uphold.
It's not that you can't criticize 2 things at one time, but celebrities are so insignificant in this situation that it is ludicrous to focus on them.
What is "cowardly" is looking at Lebron and Cena, instead of looking at yourself (government) and standing behind your principles. The rest of the world's governments could have stopped China's human rights abuses decades ago. They didn't, because they put their country's economy first.
 
By agreeing with the Chinese position that Taiwan is not a country, he is defending them. By apologizing to the Chinese nationalists for calling Taiwan a country, he is shitting on Taiwan.

Cena is pandering to China, a regime that is genociding minorities and being imperialistic.

China is not going to invade just because some c-lister like Cena says Taiwan is a country.

So what if China boycotts Hollywood? Hollywood should boycott China. People like Cena are part of the problem, because they are the ones enabling regimes like the CCP to carry on doing business.

Hollywood needs China these days

China dethrones the US as the largest film market in the world
https://www.scmp.com/magazines/styl...thrones-us-largest-film-market-world-fast-and
 
Apartheid South Africa is not analogous in this situation.
Again, you keep trying to put up China's complete human rights record on trial, when this controversy was specifically about China and Taiwan's dispute over sovereignty. Not about China's human rights records.

Cena obviously accidentally stumbled into that debate. It's clear as day what his intent was when he said what he said, and you're acting like he was trying to make a political statement either way. All he was trying to do was to clean up the mess he made and walk right back out of that barn.
His "pandering" was to not stir up anymore controversy.

You ignored my point about how that controversy is not even necessarily a good thing for Taiwan. And Cena is one of the last people that should intentionally be taking actions that would provoke China.
We know damn well that if Cena had said "Yeah, Taiwan doesn't belong to China. It's its own nation. Fuck China", there would be consequences for that, that would go beyond just money. China would not let that go. And the Taiwanese people could've gotten the brunt of that anger to prove a point.

If your stance is that Hollywood actors should never do business with China because of their human rights abuses, then make that case, but you're also going to have to say that about every other industry that we have working with China. Governments are going to have to actually stand by the principles they claim to uphold.
It's not that you can't criticize 2 things at one time, but celebrities are so insignificant in this situation that it is ludicrous to focus on them.
What is "cowardly" is looking at Lebron and Cena, instead of looking at yourself (government) and standing behind your principles. The rest of the world's governments could have stopped China's human rights abuses decades ago. They didn't, because they put their country's economy first.

China's whole human rights record is part of the equation, because he is pandering to the same regime and nationalists that carrying out these other human rights violations.

By issuing a grovelling apology, he is no different to someone who would have pandered to Apartheid South Africa or the Saudis or Euro fascists in the 30s and 40s.

Taiwanese people wouldn't have felt anything. It is silly to think China is going to take action against Taiwan because this American actor / wrestler said Taiwan is a country.

Ofcourse I think our government and corporations should boycott China, and our corporations are the big fish as far as assining blame goes, but that does not preclude blaming celebrities also. Celebrity comments matter, because they are focused on by media and society.
 
this film must be really bad it has lower rating than fate of the furious might just wait till it hits netflix.
 
China's whole human rights record is part of the equation, because he is pandering to the same regime and nationalists that carrying out these other human rights violations.

By issuing a grovelling apology, he is no different to someone who would have pandered to Apartheid South Africa or the Saudis or Euro fascists in the 30s and 40s.

Taiwanese people wouldn't have felt anything. It is silly to think China is going to take action against Taiwan because this American actor / wrestler said Taiwan is a country.

Ofcourse I think our government and corporations should boycott China, and our corporations are the big fish as far as assining blame goes, but that does not preclude blaming celebrities also. Celebrity comments matter, because they are focused on by media and society.

China's whole human rights record is part of the equation, if you want to talk about China's human rights record.
This incident is specifically about territory/sovereignty of Taiwan. And you're saying Cena should bring up China's human rights record over an issue that doesn't have anything to do with that, when he wasn't trying to make a political statement from the start.
You keep repeating these poor arguments about 'groveling, cowardice, and pandering', words that mean nothing when talking about the actual issues here.
So there's no need for us to keep circling around that. But you're clearly arguing based on your feelings.


Taiwanese people wouldn't feel anything? You base that on what?
China has repeatedly warned and threatened war if Taiwan took steps to go fully independent. They don't have relations with countries that acknowledge Taiwan.
They do constant cyber attacks, have missiles pointed at Taiwan, and they have been doing all kinds of military exercises in the Taiwan Strait.
They don't even have to do a full on military invasion, there is all kinds of economic and political actions of destabilization they can do to make life for the Taiwanese hell.
In the age where the most random shit goes viral, to say that John Cena taking a political stance against China wouldn't be a big story is nonsense. It''d be a big story. And it would cause a reaction in Taiwan as well. And then China would have to react to that. You can't know much about China or Taiwan to say otherwise.

Taiwan has huge historical and symbolic importance to China and the CCP and what they stand for, they are not ever going to just drop this.
So the idea that wrestler/actor John Cena should get dunked on for not helping to stir the pot is complete nonsense said by people on the outside that have nothing to lose themselves, and don't really care about Taiwan.
There's plenty of things that can and should be said about China and Taiwan and human rights---but it shouldn't be addressed via John Cena and a friggin Fast and the Furious movie.
 
China's whole human rights record is part of the equation, if you want to talk about China's human rights record.
This incident is specifically about territory/sovereignty of Taiwan. And you're saying Cena should bring up China's human rights record over an issue that doesn't have anything to do with that, when he wasn't trying to make a political statement from the start.
You keep repeating these poor arguments about 'groveling, cowardice, and pandering', words that mean nothing when talking about the actual issues here.
So there's no need for us to keep circling around that. But you're clearly arguing based on your feelings.


Taiwanese people wouldn't feel anything? You base that on what?
China has repeatedly warned and threatened war if Taiwan took steps to go fully independent. They don't have relations with countries that acknowledge Taiwan.
They do constant cyber attacks, have missiles pointed at Taiwan, and they have been doing all kinds of military exercises in the Taiwan Strait.
They don't even have to do a full on military invasion, there is all kinds of economic and political actions of destabilization they can do to make life for the Taiwanese hell.
In the age where the most random shit goes viral, to say that John Cena taking a political stance against China wouldn't be a big story is nonsense. It''d be a big story. And it would cause a reaction in Taiwan as well. And then China would have to react to that. You can't know much about China or Taiwan to say otherwise.

Taiwan has huge historical and symbolic importance to China and the CCP and what they stand for, they are not ever going to just drop this.
So the idea that wrestler/actor John Cena should get dunked on for not helping to stir the pot is complete nonsense said by people on the outside that have nothing to lose themselves, and don't really care about Taiwan.
There's plenty of things that can and should be said about China and Taiwan and human rights---but it shouldn't be addressed via John Cena and a friggin Fast and the Furious movie.

North Korea is symbolic to China, the South China Sea is symbolic to China, Hong Kong is symbolic to China. That's just the shit they claim as they try and take over as much as they can.
 
No longer communist is debatable. Less communist is objectively true and it's laughable for you to deny that fact. They rose to power as the Communist Party and they rule under that name. But they're widely considered to be communist in name only for good reason. And that's why capitalist countries and corporations are doing TONS of business over there. Not an actual communist country like Cuba.

They call themselves a "Leninist Market Economy" which is kind of hilarious but that's what they do.

Steve Kotkin talks about it in one of his lectures. And this "Leninist Market Economy" was just Deng Xiaoping recognizing that no matter how many people they killed, they couldn't stop peasants in China from trading and creating undergound markets. In the USSR, they destroyed almost every market. In China, they failed to do it, and lost their appetite for mass incarceration and slaughter, so they threw an ideological justification behind what was going on anyway and started allowing markets/growing them.

Here is a bit of a talk he does on Fascism vs Communism, timestamped

 
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