Jon Jones before/after steroids... or not?

Lol. You’re now changing your question from has anyone else gotten a pass to pulse to was it the norm prior to jones???

the financial incentive for usada and smrtl (wada lab) was not “immense”. More downside than upside.

I haven't changed anything. I have given you my explanation to your question "yes...does that change anything for you".

Questions and answers are not black and white without elaboration. A simply yes with no qualifications or no without qualifications.

it COULD honestly change my view if you could provide some fighters names and examples of 'allowed pulsing' where the governing testing body allowed the fight to happen regardless of high steroid detection limits that otherwise would see the fighter suspended.

But the truth is if the 'exceptions' are only 'once' prior or even a 'few' prior and it is ONLY for big name fighters in big fights I will still be skeptical. WHich is what you asked me.

Am i skeptical that Danial Cormier made weight fairly in that big fight? Yes. I think no minor fighter gets that pass and only a similar big name would. Or Jones failing for Cocaine and still getting to fight? Yes.

I will happily review your examples of prior 'pulsing' and they might indeed change my view. And that is a fair position to hold. I DO NOT have to say 'no matter the example you give me i will state now it will change my view regardless of what that situation happens to be'.
 
I haven't changed anything. I have given you my explanation to your question "yes...does that change anything for you".

Questions and answers are not black and white without elaboration. A simply yes with no qualifications or no without qualifications.

it COULD honestly change my view if you could provide some fighters names and examples of 'allowed pulsing' where the governing testing body allowed the fight to happen regardless of high steroid detection limits that otherwise would see the fighter suspended.

But the truth is if the 'exceptions' are only 'once' prior or even a 'few' prior and it is ONLY for big name fighters in big fights I will still be skeptical. WHich is what you asked me.

Am i skeptical that Danial Cormier made weight fairly in that big fight? Yes. I think no minor fighter gets that pass and only a similar big name would. Or Jones failing for Cocaine and still getting to fight? Yes.

I will happily review your examples of prior 'pulsing' and they might indeed change my view. And that is a fair position to hold. I DO NOT have to say 'no matter the example you give me i will state now it will change my view regardless of what that situation happens to be'.
Is Muslim salikhov a big name?

Cocaine was not a prohibited out of competition substance.

I don’t know what “high steroid detection limits” means...
 
Is Muslim salikhov a big name?

Cocaine was not a prohibited out of competition substance.

I don’t know what “high steroid detection limits” means...
What i meant was 'limits that otherwise get him banned from a fight' without the 'pulsing' excuse to use as an offset.

I was not aware of the Muslim Salikhov situation. Is this it and is that accurate?



It shows a time frame of notification as July 2018 and then it shows his next fight as Sept 2019, which is 14 months later which if unless i am missing something here (and I might be) that does not qualify as a good example for this.
 
What i meant was 'limits that otherwise get him banned from a fight' without the 'pulsing' excuse to use as an offset.

I was not aware of the Muslim Salikhov situation. Is this it and is that accurate?



It shows a time frame of notification as July 2018 and then it shows his next fight as Sept 2019, which is 14 months later which if unless i am missing something here (and I might be) that does not qualify as a good example for this.

C’mon this is easy research.
https://www.mmafighting.com/2019/3/...oping-case-similar-to-one-involving-jon-jones
 
Wrong

Sage's Northcutt is a physique that may be achievable natty for a life long lifter with elite genetics. Look how smaller his delts and traps look compared to GSPs. And Sage is a lifelong natural bodybuilder.

images
what a load of utter rubbish, muscles only increase in size the more you work them ( very generally speaking ) how do you know what his routine is, what exercises he does to achieve his results?
I weight trained for years but hardly worked traps at all cos I think they look ridiculous and stopped your shoulders looking broad, I 'could ' have mad them look like GSP's very easily.
Elite genetics ? lol, with dedication and nutrition its quite achievable. It needs to be a lifestyle though cos you wont get it otherwise
 
i don't find that helpful to Jones' case at all.

He was suspended for getting caught and was off for over a year but as a result of what they say they learned in the Jones Case, they are now letting him compete. It is exactly what i was not looking for as it looks like exceptions created by a 'Jones Rule' as a way to justify the rule.

To me this would be like if you showed me fighters post Daniel Cormier's towel lean, now using the trick and getting away with it. Ya the commission traps themselves into accepting it later or exposing it as a one time thing only for one fighter.

Can you cite an example where the decision to allow pulsing was prior to Jones?

---------

...Salikhov, 34, first tested positive for 4-chloro-18-nor-17β-hydroxymethyl,17α-methyl-5α-androst-13-en-3α-ol (M3) (or DHMCT) stemming from an out-of-competition sample collected June 7, 2018. Salikhov, a Russia native, was provisionally suspended by USADA and the UFC when the result came back, pending the investigation and adjudication process.

Since then, Salikhov has been tested six times. Two of those have came back with trace amounts of the long-term M3 metabolite of DHCMT in his system, while four have returned negative. All of the adverse findings have come back under 10 picograms per milliliter. And no parent compound, short- and medium-term metabolites have been found.

With what USADA knows now about how long the M3 metabolite might “pulse” in an athlete’s system from cases involving Jones and others, the agency has made the decision to not suspend Salikhov. U
 
what a load of utter rubbish, muscles only increase in size the more you work them ( very generally speaking ) how do you know what his routine is, what exercises he does to achieve his results?
I weight trained for years but hardly worked traps at all cos I think they look ridiculous and stopped your shoulders looking broad, I 'could ' have mad them look like GSP's very easily.
Elite genetics ? lol, with dedication and nutrition its quite achievable. It needs to be a lifestyle though cos you wont get it otherwise
Yup.

In today's pro sports I am never shocked when anyone gets busted for PED's. But pointing to GSP's build as proof is just silly.

GSP was ripped, and he has a big frame so when you see him face on he looks big and impressive but his muscles has almost zero mass to them.

gsp_vs_koscheck.jpg



And if anyone should be ripped without steroids it would be GSP based on how dedicated and consistent he was with his work outs. Unless people believe a lifelong dedication to working out as much as he did should not result in any muscle gains??
 
i don't find that helpful to Jones' case at all.

He was suspended for getting caught and was off for over a year but as a result of what they say they learned in the Jones Case, they are now letting him compete. It is exactly what i was not looking for as it looks like exceptions created by a 'Jones Rule' as a way to justify the rule.

To me this would be like if you showed me fighters post Daniel Cormier's towel lean, now using the trick and getting away with it. Ya the commission traps themselves into accepting it later or exposing it as a one time thing only for one fighter.

Can you cite an example where the decision to allow pulsing was prior to Jones?

---------

...Salikhov, 34, first tested positive for 4-chloro-18-nor-17β-hydroxymethyl,17α-methyl-5α-androst-13-en-3α-ol (M3) (or DHMCT) stemming from an out-of-competition sample collected June 7, 2018. Salikhov, a Russia native, was provisionally suspended by USADA and the UFC when the result came back, pending the investigation and adjudication process.

Since then, Salikhov has been tested six times. Two of those have came back with trace amounts of the long-term M3 metabolite of DHCMT in his system, while four have returned negative. All of the adverse findings have come back under 10 picograms per milliliter. And no parent compound, short- and medium-term metabolites have been found.

With what USADA knows now about how long the M3 metabolite might “pulse” in an athlete’s system from cases involving Jones and others, the agency has made the decision to not suspend Salikhov. U
Show me someone suspended by usada for pulsing after being suspended already.


This is official policy. Not a one off exception for jones.
 
Show me someone suspended by usada for pulsing after being suspended already.


This is official policy. Not a one off exception for jones.
Your article seems to differ

"...With what USADA knows now about how long the M3 metabolite might “pulse” in an athlete’s system from cases involving Jones and others, the agency has made the decision to not suspend Salikhov. U..."

That suggests the learnings from the Jones case, bolstered by others are the reason this is now allowed. Not that this was policy prior to Jones and cases like Jones and Salikhov benefited from its establishment prior. Its pretty clear that Salikhov benefited from due to Jones.
 
The problem with the "Pulsing" BS as I understand it is that there were established tests to identify long term metabolites in fighters to keep them from cycling between tests and simply getting out the short-term metabolites from ones system. Everyone prior was busted for such long term metabolites prior as they are a strong indication of continued steroid abuse.

In doing this for Jonesit literally creates a 'rest of career' excuse for them finding long term metabolites and calling it 'normal' as long as they find no short term metabolites.

He can pulse until the end of time as long as he comes off in time before a test.
 
The problem with the "Pulsing" BS as I understand it is that there were established tests to identify long term metabolites in fighters to keep them from cycling between tests and simply getting out the short-term metabolites from ones system. Everyone prior was busted for such long term metabolites prior as they are a strong indication of continued steroid abuse.

In doing this for Jonesit literally creates a 'rest of career' excuse for them finding long term metabolites and calling it 'normal' as long as they find no short term metabolites.

He can pulse until the end of time as long as he comes off in time before a test.
Again, you fail to articulate what this affords him. What does “comes off in time before a test mean”? How can he do that? He was tested all the time. No one ever addresses this. Do you know anything about effective dosing of dhmct steroids? How is it possible for him to “pulse” and cycle? Please attempt to address this.
 
Your article seems to differ

"...With what USADA knows now about how long the M3 metabolite might “pulse” in an athlete’s system from cases involving Jones and others, the agency has made the decision to not suspend Salikhov. U..."

That suggests the learnings from the Jones case, bolstered by others are the reason this is now allowed. Not that this was policy prior to Jones and cases like Jones and Salikhov benefited from its establishment prior. Its pretty clear that Salikhov benefited from due to Jones.
I asked you to provide an example of someone who pulsed after a suspension who was suspended again. That would be a comparable example to jones.

Again, this is usada official policy, not a one off for jones, which was what you originally speculated. And yes, of course they had to make a decision on jones because he was the first such case they had to evaluate. But it’s their public policy. The idea that one of the leading anti-doping agencies in the world, along with one of the leading Wada accredited labs, made up a public position for one athlete is silly. They don’t make more money because jones is allowed to fight. Usada board and executive salaries are all public.
 
I asked you to provide an example of someone who pulsed after a suspension who was suspended again. That would be a comparable example to jones.

Again, this is usada official policy, not a one off for jones, which was what you originally speculated. And yes, of course they had to make a decision on jones because he was the first such case they had to evaluate. But it’s their public policy. The idea that one of the leading anti-doping agencies in the world, along with one of the leading Wada accredited labs, made up a public position for one athlete is silly. They don’t make more money because jones is allowed to fight. Usada board and executive salaries are all public.
Good that you believe that. I have seen the Commissions and regulators cave with deniability to the big Org around giant fights before in both MMA and Boxing. If you don't want to believe they will, that is fine. I'm ok with that.

They can create a new rule for guys to hold on to towels at weighs in if they want but I know it was an accomodation made for Cormier at the time that few other fighters would have ever got and now they would have a hard time saying no if anyone else wanted to follow it.
 
Yup.

In today's pro sports I am never shocked when anyone gets busted for PED's. But pointing to GSP's build as proof is just silly.

GSP was ripped, and he has a big frame so when you see him face on he looks big and impressive but his muscles has almost zero mass to them.

gsp_vs_koscheck.jpg



And if anyone should be ripped without steroids it would be GSP based on how dedicated and consistent he was with his work outs. Unless people believe a lifelong dedication to working out as much as he did should not result in any muscle gains??

Your argument is "everyone in sports is suspect, except GSP because I believe he works hard and maintains a natural physique because I choose to believe so" ?

That will go far.....
 
His off season basic physique is clearly not the same. he has no fundamental delts whatsoever and looks like a nerd
you think fedor looks the same in his before picture, which is him in shape right before a fight? you can't be serious.

and you're aware jones is trying to look like a nerd.....
 
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