Jon Jones/GSP/ Khabib the numbers tell who is GOAT

Jones can never be in discussion as a multiple cheating juicer ffs.
 
Beastos said:
This is interesting. The longer time goes by, the more you fellow sherbros forget who GSP was and what he did...
combined record from opponents
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I'm pretty sure these numbers are fake, in the sense that it may be using "at the time" numbers and "current record" inconsistantly to make Khabib look worse.
 
Prince Nephilim said:
Silva isn’t the Goat, numb nuts. Nice try, tho.

Only one Champion has never been submitted, finished or decisioned.
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Jones has arguably lost his last two fights to Reyes and Santos (1 of 3 judges had Santos winning) in his 27th and 28th pro fights. Fedor was 31-0 and didn't legitimately lose until his 33rd pro fight. Fedor demolished and abused his competition way more violently than Jones has/did.

Fedor fought way more dangerous men than Jones and it's silly to right that off because of semantics such as mmaweekly rankings or whatever metric is used for that stuff. What does Jones do against an opponent way taller and heavier than him?

I've yet to hear from posters how Jones deals with Semmy Schilt or Hong Man Choi when the biggest guy he's fought is Alexander Gustaffson. How does Jones deal with the first minute of Kevin Randleman or a 280 pound Mark Hunt?
You never hear these questions asked or answered lol
 
To call Jones a better fighter than Fedor is so laughable. Fedor, at 28-0, the same amount of fights that has done it's number on Jones seemingly, defeated Tim Sylvia, Andrei Arlovski, and Brett Rogers before losing in this 34th pro fight.

Ask yourself how the current Jon Jones would do against those 3 guys. Anyone who says he'd run through them is not thinking/and or being dishonest. All of the guys Jones has beaten had to weigh in at 205, but Jones is going to beat Sylvia, Arlovski, and Rogers? HUGE guys with devastating power and PHDs in manipulating heavyweight frames, a division Jones is scared to compete in
 
Gamer007 said:
Is that when they actually fought them?


Or the records years out of their primes?

Vital information because Nick, Bisping, Hendricks, and shields have a combined 37 losses just on their own, so this must be the records of his opponents when he actually fought them.

Matt Hughes single handily inflates these numbers, his record was insane and he fought GSP 3 times. That's like 120 wins just on those 3 fights.

I assume the younger you are, the less this metric tends to favor you. Now days guys don't fight as often, and the regional scene is much much better. You don't see guys having 50+ fights like in GSP's day. GSP is one of the greats, but if you observe this objectively, you know it's not the best metric.

For example, AJ Mckee's father was a pro mma fighter. He finished his career with a record of 30-6, but not many fans have even heard of him.

Yoel doesn't have the greatest record, but he'd smoke 90% of these guys with much better records on paper, anyway good info, but ultimately not that explanatory upon review.
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In theory that should lead to fewer losses on their opponents records too since fewer fights means fewer wins and losses.

Honestly though I think it’s situational. Justin and Dustin are 22-3 and 28-6 respectively and both are in their early 30s while Trigg and Penn went 21-9 and 16-14 throughout their entire careers.

Having said that I do think a better metric would be their opponents total record, although that system has some obvious holes in it as well. I still think it would paint a more complete picture.
 
The number of times you get caught for peds determines your goatness. Jones is a career juicer and not worth of being mentioned with other goat candidates. Facts
 
HavokHarmon said:
In theory that should lead to fewer losses on their opponents records too since fewer fights means fewer wins and losses.

Honestly though I think it’s situational. Justin and Dustin are 22-3 and 28-6 respectively and both are in their early 30s while Trigg and Penn went 21-9 and 16-14 throughout their entire careers.

Having said that I do think a better metric would be their opponents total record, although that system has some obvious holes in it as well. I still think it would paint a more complete picture.
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How do you think a fight between Khabib and Hiroya Takada would go? Hiroya Takada went 1-3 in mma with a 12 second ko loss to Fedor. He had a 2nd round guillotine choke loss, a majority decision loss, and a unanimous decision win, all against guys 205 to 220 pounds. Takada was a successful amateur wrestler at 97kg, and despite his loss to Fedor, he made his other fights competitive.

I find it ridiculous that fighters like Fedor, Derrick Lewis, Miocic, Nogueira etc. don't get props, or at least acknowledgement for being able to put a guy like Hiroya Takada away in seconds. Meanwhile, Khabib and Gsp struggle to put away lightweights and welterweights
 
The only number that matters is 0.


0 losses.

Been dropped 0 times

been cut 0 times.

been in danger 0 times.

Had his ass beat 0 times.

carried out of octagon 0 times.

0 PED busts.
 
Cranberry2.0 said:
How do you think a fight between Khabib and Hiroya Takada would go? Hiroya Takada went 1-3 in mma with a 12 second ko loss to Fedor. He had a 2nd round guillotine choke loss, a majority decision loss, and a unanimous decision win, all against guys 205 to 220 pounds. Takada was a successful amateur wrestler at 97kg, and despite his loss to Fedor, he made his other fights competitive.

I find it ridiculous that fighters like Fedor, Derrick Lewis, Miocic, Nogueira etc. don't get props, or at least acknowledgement for being able to put a guy like Hiroya Takada away in seconds. Meanwhile, Khabib and Gsp struggle to put away lightweights and welterweights
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Khabib ended his career with 3 finishes in a row in title defenses…
 
PunchyMcSplodo said:
I'm pretty sure these numbers are fake, in the sense that it may be using "at the time" numbers and "current record" inconsistantly to make Khabib look worse.
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inconsistently? it's consistent, not rocket science. The records at the time they fought, not really that hard to grasp and Khabib retired early.
 
Azyy said:
I recognise it's a different time today and people generally work harder for a title shot, but in this instance Khabib really didn't.

Jones: 7 wins in less than 3 years. 0 pull-outs.
GSP: 7 wins in less than 3 years. 1 pull-out. UCC champion.
Khabib: 9 wins in almost 6 years. 4 pull-outs.

GSP had 2 "UFC" wins, but this was when the UFC weren't the "A-league" so it's disingenuous to use that against him. This is a common argument and it's so dumb.

Khabib's first 16 wins are irrelevant. If he had gotten a title shot and fought elite competition earlier, before joining AKA, he would've been beaten. If he had fought consistently as champion and didn't retire, someone would've beaten him eventually, that's just how it goes.
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Khabib did that purposefully, the same way Islam is, fighters peak at 28-32, so if you go too quickly and are fighting for the belt when you are 23 it's more likely you will have losses. I think it's very smart, a lot of fighters get pushed too quickly and take unnecessary losses, but it can't be used to argue for Khabib being higher in GOAT conversations, fucking ridiculous
 
41% of Kabibs opponents had a negative score before going to battle with him! I repeat, 41%!

its the most padded record of anyone who is in GOAT discussion, and the only reason he is in this discussion here on SD is the sheer wndless amount of 3rd world religious trolljobs who mostly registered after 2018, pushing this ridiculous narrative and who solely get a boner when one of their religion-comrades fight.
 
Orochimaru 大蛇丸 said:
Khabib did that purposefully, the same way Islam is, fighters peak at 28-32, so if you go too quickly and are fighting for the belt when you are 23 it's more likely you will have losses. I think it's very smart, a lot of fighters get pushed too quickly and take unnecessary losses, but it can't be used to argue for Khabib being higher in GOAT conversations, fucking ridiculous
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Khabib's legacy in MMA is this:

  • Khabib never been knocked out
  • Never been rocked
  • Not once bleed in the octagon
  • Not one round where his opponent is the aggressor/ more dominant fighter, Khabib is the hammer and you are the nail
  • Most 10-8 round in UFC although only been fighting 13 times.
  • Don't use PED.
  • No oilgate/vaseline-gate, etc.
  • Never in any danger whatsoever inside the octagon.
  • No rule breaking bullshit.
  • Zero cheating and foul in the octagon.

The most dominant fighter in MMA by far, it is very very hard to replicate what Khabib had done inside the octagon.

Also most Russian/Ex-USSR countries fighters that Khabib fought before UFC are probably better grappler/sambo than during his UFC dominance.

Khabib is the best lightweight in the world since 2014/2015/2016 until his 2020 retirement, albeit with or without belt this is the fact.

The best MMA grappler of all time.

And according to Khabib he is not THE BEST OF ALL TIME (Best of GOATs), but just ONE OF THE BEST or AMONG THE BEST.

p/s:
Jones somehow a little triggered after Khabib took #1 P4P spot before Dana finally accepting Khabib retirement.
 
Tevfik1907 said:


Conor: ''Khabib will get the LW belt'' - 2015

He is P4P No.1 since 2015, he retired in 2020.

It's UFC's fault they didn't give Khabib the title shot in 2016 instead they give it to Conor, they made him wait until 2018.

He didn't leave prematurely, UFC tried to avoid Khabib, and tried to undermine him, but Khabib beat UFC too.

They give the title shot to GSP after 2 UFC fights, and give it to Jon Jones after 3 years, while Khabib needed to wait 6 years to get his title shot. UFC didn't want Khabib, while they wanted GSP and Jon Jones.
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How many fights did Jon have in those 3 years compared to Khabib's 6?

Also P4P #1 since 2015 lol
 
balkanbomber85 said:
41% of Kabibs opponents had a negative score before going to battle with him! I repeat, 41%!

its the most padded record of anyone who is in GOAT discussion, and the only reason he is in this discussion here on SD is the sheer wndless amount of 3rd world religious trolljobs who mostly registered after 2018, pushing this ridiculous narrative and who solely get a boner when one of their religion-comrades fight.
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Objectively false
 
balkanbomber85 said:
41% of Kabibs opponents had a negative score before going to battle with him! I repeat, 41%!

its the most padded record of anyone who is in GOAT discussion, and the only reason he is in this discussion here on SD is the sheer wndless amount of 3rd world religious trolljobs who mostly registered after 2018, pushing this ridiculous narrative and who solely get a boner when one of their religion-comrades fight.
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Agreed 100 percent on the 2018+ join date, it’s hilarious
 
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