k1/glory style guys vs top thais

Their ovens can be deadly... why not their fighters? ;)

some say it due to dutch being massive on average but tons of short dutch fighters out there ramon dekkers melvin manhoef

i personally prefer the dutch style to traditional thai style
 
im not into kb very much dont know the ins outs a friend of mine says that the stadium thai guys are way better than the top guys who fight under kick boxing rules i just dont see how given the money they could made doing it so curious what others here think

technically, its 2 different sports. So I suppose it would depend on what ruleset they were fighting under. The guys on Enfusion fights for example, are really good KB. KB tend to be better on the outside, more hands oriented, and a more sideways, bouncy, boxing style footwork.

Generally speaking though, i would give it to the thais. Buakaw dominating K1 comes to mind.
 
S

o why as everyone so obsessed with the Dutch then when comes to striking


The Dutch (ie Ramon Dekkers) brought in slick combination punching from the sport of western boxing. It's not that the Thai's weren't capable of punching but for them it wasn't worthwhile because it didn't score well, they didn't feel it was as effective as the other weapons and clinching and probably the audience and betting industry didn't like it either.
Dekkers had success with it, which gave brought exposure of Muay Thai in Europe and inspired others to go have shot.
Then you had another generation of Europeans who liked to punch such as Damien Trainor have success too.



- this is the story several Muay Thai coaches have told me.
 
some say it due to dutch being massive on average but tons of short dutch fighters out there ramon dekkers melvin manhoef

i personally prefer the dutch style to traditional thai style

Dekkers is a good example, he fought under MT rules, but was a "dutch style" fighter, he could clinch knee elbow, but wasnt his strong point. The argument is always brought up that dekkers beat the thais with his hands, something which they werent used to at the time, and others argue that thais can also punch, which they certainly can, and there will always be a thai who prefers his "insert technique here"...so yeah theres thais that are big punchers like anuwat for example, anyways, point being, that generally speaking....as a whole......thai fighters, fight thai style, and dutch fighters fight dutch stye. So aside from the exception to the rule thai, the majority of thais were used to fighting thai style fighters, dekkers was able to expoit this with his hands. If your a big dekkers fan, its quite easy to see his style in other fighters, such as damien trainor for example, trainor trained with dekkers and kaman. Another guy you can easily see dekkers style in, is Lee Coville, who also trained with him. All that being said, this was golden era muay thai, and the sport is evolving and improving, footwork and head movement are becoming more a part of it, something the sport generally lacked before. If you get on damien trainors website, he talks about this as well. IMO the difficult thing with combining a KB style with a MT style, is incorporating the clinch/knee/elbow game. The bouncy and footwork head movement, seems to make the clinch knee elbow game difficult to incorporate. The MT style, makes the movement/footwork hard to incorporate. A good example of KB being superior on the outside, MT superior on the inside is chike lindsay vs yodsanklai. Yod has so much more exp on him, chike did very well the first few rounds staying to the outside, I think he could have beat him on points if he continued that way, but he decided to clinch with him and it was over.
 
if the thais were better why didnt they go fight k1 ?

when people talk about strikers they talk about hoost remy bonjaski badr hari and friends only heard about buakaw today in the kb scene so yall think that thais are better than the top kick boxers in the world today?

But k1 was the biggest kB org during 90s 2000s and hardly any Thai guys were there you think the Thais would went to k1 rules and dominated everyone basically?

the best thais fight at 108-130 lbs range. most of the thais that fight - and more often than not dominate - internationally are giving up considerable weight to their opponents at 145-155 pounds weight classes.

Hoost/Aerts/Remy/Badr Hari are heavyweights, there aren't thais big enough to fight them (granted, Kaoklai KTFOed Mighty Mo at HW K1 giving up like 80 pounds maybe; Nokweed Davy fought a close fight against HW legend Jerome LeBanner in K1 giving up similar ammount of weight).

more thais didn't fight in K1 and don't fight at Glory because there is some twisted politics in combat sports. first, most western promotions don't want a little thai guy kicking the hell out of their potential star fighters; second, thai fighters are always attached to a thai promoter who may or may not want them to fight in other shows other than his.

It has a better carry over to MMA than MT does

this doesn't make much sense. none of them carry over to MMA much. but the one sport that has much less restrictions (like mma) is the one that carries over less?
 
The Dutch (ie Ramon Dekkers) brought in slick combination punching from the sport of western boxing. It's not that the Thai's weren't capable of punching but for them it wasn't worthwhile because it didn't score well, they didn't feel it was as effective as the other weapons and clinching and probably the audience and betting industry didn't like it either.
Dekkers had success with it, which gave brought exposure of Muay Thai in Europe and inspired others to go have shot.
Then you had another generation of Europeans who liked to punch such as Damien Trainor have success too.



- this is the story several Muay Thai coaches have told me.

Ah yes, the myth of Ramon Dekkers. While he did bring Muay Thai to a wider audience in Europe he didn't change the sport in Thailand with his style or anything. He lost as often as he won and he faced very few of the top tier fighters of his era such as Karuhat, Ole Kiatonoway, Boonlai, or Namkhabuan. He was well known and respected for his toughness & aggression along with putting on good fights, but he didn't show the Thais a whole new style or change the way they fight.

All that being said, this was golden era muay thai, and the sport is evolving and improving, footwork and head movement are becoming more a part of it, something the sport generally lacked before. If you get on damien trainors website, he talks about this as well. IMO the difficult thing with combining a KB style with a MT style, is incorporating the clinch/knee/elbow game. The bouncy and footwork head movement, seems to make the clinch knee elbow game difficult to incorporate. The MT style, makes the movement/footwork hard to incorporate. A good example of KB being superior on the outside, MT superior on the inside is chike lindsay vs yodsanklai. Yod has so much more exp on him, chike did very well the first few rounds staying to the outside, I think he could have beat him on points if he continued that way, but he decided to clinch with him and it was over.

That is debatable, it was called the Golden Era of Muay Thai for a good reason. Back in those days there were fighters pulling off moves that not even Saenchai can do. I could go on and write for ages, but it's easier to just show.



 
A good example of an excellent Thai gym's perspective on how to deal with a kickboxing, Western, in and out style. I don't think it's wrong at all, it's just a different perspective and mentality. I personally find it beautiful, it's a very simple concept but you can see how this is distilled into the style of a lot of MT fighters from Thailand. There's a different approach to timing and rhythm, if you watch other videos from Sitjaopho, they understand the difference and incorporate boxing and other less rigid concepts. It's nice to see that they can still retain the essence of Muay Thai in their training and show it can adapt to modern Muay Thai and kickboxing.

How to deal with a forward pressuring, puncher heavy style:



How to deal with a fast, in and out, or Western kickboxing style:




Now here's a Sitjaopho fighter show casing some of this:





There's other fights with Jaiphet on that channel, check em out.
 
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the best thais fight at 108-130 lbs range. most of the thais that fight - and more often than not dominate - internationally are giving up considerable weight to their opponents at 145-155 pounds weight classes.

Hoost/Aerts/Remy/Badr Hari are heavyweights, there aren't thais big enough to fight them (granted, Kaoklai KTFOed Mighty Mo at HW K1 giving up like 80 pounds maybe; Nokweed Davy fought a close fight against HW legend Jerome LeBanner in K1 giving up similar ammount of weight).

more thais didn't fight in K1 and don't fight at Glory because there is some twisted politics in combat sports. first, most western promotions don't want a little thai guy kicking the hell out of their potential star fighters; second, thai fighters are always attached to a thai promoter who may or may not want them to fight in other shows other than his.



this doesn't make much sense. none of them carry over to MMA much. but the one sport that has much less restrictions (like mma) is the one that carries over less?
The stance from DKB is more lead leg heavy making it easier for sprawls compared to an upright stance with weight distributed more in the rear

Clinch posture and stance (no underhooks, standing parallel, shoulder width apart) is asking to get blast doubled. Even the basic defense to the bearhug is too slow to someone who just bearhugs and plops forward. It's fine in MT where takedowns and trips are illegal so there's time to work out of it.
 
Ah yes, the myth of Ramon Dekkers. While he did bring Muay Thai to a wider audience in Europe he didn't change the sport in Thailand with his style or anything. He lost as often as he won and he faced very few of the top tier fighters of his era such as Karuhat, Ole Kiatonoway, Boonlai, or Namkhabuan. He was well known and respected for his toughness & aggression along with putting on good fights, but he didn't show the Thais a whole new style or change the way they fight.
Yeah, it's incredible how people are still perpetuating these myths about Dekkers. He was one of the best foreigners to fight in Thailand, that's about it. He wasn't one of the best fighters, didn't win fighter of the year and he certainly didn't revolutionize anything. Before him, Sagat Petchyindee and Samransak Muangsurin were already pressure fighters with a punching-focused style.
 
But k1 was the biggest kB org during 90s 2000s and hardly any Thai guys were there you think the Thais would went to k1 rules and dominated everyone basically?
K1 was bigger guys and most Thais are smaller. Yeah there was K-1 max but Baukaw was there - they made rule changes.
 
are kick boxers able to flurish more without threat of clich almost how amazing stirkers do less well in mma due to threat of take down
i mean in kickboxing vs muay thai
for instance petrosyan under ful thai rules would be thrown off due to clinch and knees dunno sorry my dslexia having trouble wording what i mean
i know many think the clinch is boring but to me it seems its vital in the full efectivness in muay thai and under ful thai rules kickboxers have less skill fuck knows sorry i sounded retarded today
 
are kick boxers able to flurish more without threat of clich almost how amazing stirkers do less well in mma due to threat of take down
i mean in kickboxing vs muay thai
for instance petrosyan under ful thai rules would be thrown off due to clinch and knees dunno sorry my dslexia having trouble wording what i mean
i know many think the clinch is boring but to me it seems its vital in the full efectivness in muay thai and under ful thai rules kickboxers have less skill fuck knows sorry i sounded retarded today
The clinch is a very important aspect in the amateurs you can have sub-par kickboxing, but if your clinch is miles ahead of the competition, you'll dominate
 
Ah yes, the myth of Ramon Dekkers. While he did bring Muay Thai to a wider audience in Europe he didn't change the sport in Thailand with his style or anything. He lost as often as he won and he faced very few of the top tier fighters of his era such as Karuhat, Ole Kiatonoway, Boonlai, or Namkhabuan. He was well known and respected for his toughness & aggression along with putting on good fights, but he didn't show the Thais a whole new style or change the way they fight.



That is debatable, it was called the Golden Era of Muay Thai for a good reason. Back in those days there were fighters pulling off moves that not even Saenchai can do. I could go on and write for ages, but it's easier to just show.





Yeah, Dekkers is important and definitely proved that the Thais weren't unshakable considering how much less experience he had than them - but the popular narrative with Dekkers in Europe is that the reason they throw punches more now is because of him... when if anything I think the punchers of Muay Thai are less common now than in Dekkers era.
 
i dont use the plum anymore unless the guy is hurt bad and im trying t finish but a fresh guy yeah plums asking for a takedown tbh i like using underhook and gable on the arm throwing knees elbows dirty boxing as well

i try to always come up with systems for ma reason i like the clinch is it can nullify someones hand speed ect things you may not have compared to your opponent and being able to slow the game down and be more technical and beat on them i study the hell out of randy and usman vs tyron really showed me how well clinching is with dirty boxig in the clinch

funny cause i basically abandoned my inside boxing i was taught since i was a kid cause felt it wasnt good for mma thinking that only range boxing is good for top mma levels

i know dirty boxing and inside boxing clinches arnt same but u can mix it all together

Don't abandon that thai plumb entirely, the single collar tie is massive in grappling and mma.
 
Even in glory the 45 lb champ is petchpanomrung. There aren’t a lot of Thais in glory though. I think they all went to one anyway. Easier to fight in Asia

And all the past prime thais in one are doing good
 
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