Karate in the Olympics?

[roventu]

Yesterday karate has been accepted as Olympic sport for 2020!
The rules are the ones of WKF (karate point)

wow great news man. hopefully karate gets some more recognition

 

[Tayski]

That's terrible news

This means the sport of karate will go even more mainstream, leaving behind the martial art / budo aspects of Karate as well as the full contact styles of karate.
This has many negative consequences such as:
-The perception of Karate by the general public will be this non-contact sport in which competitors bounce up and down and try to land the first strike before the fight is reset, instead of understanding what Karate really is. This only damages the reputation of Karate further.
-There will be a higher demand from parents and kids themselves for dojos and lessons of that specific sport karate, leaving behind true Budo Karate and its respectable styles.
-As a consequence of the above point, this means we will potentially see the opening of even more McDojos.

You just have to see what happened to Tae Kwon Do and Judo since their inclusion in the Olympics...

 

[roventu]

you're only looking at the negatives IMO. karate is niche, martial arts in general are niche. the bigger the audience, the more participants. yeah there will be more gyms, which means there will be more mcdojos. but with higher interest will come better gyms too. i think everyone should learn a martial art. the first part is getting them inside the bubble. then if theyre in it for a few years, they will upgrade to a better gym.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

BJJ would be awful as an Olympic sport. I'd imagine it would be reduced to who is the best 3 minute passer of the guard.

There should really just be a martial arts olympics. Forget the actual olympics, the MA that are there are just being destroyed.

WTF are you talking about ?

Maybe the ruleset becomes less combat oriented, but the money and exposure brings in MUCH better athletes and training methods. Also the frequent continental, and international competitions makes the world's best of the best frequently fight each other, increasing the natural selection process.

I am sure that current judo champions wipe the floor with the best judoka of 50 years ago, under pretty much any ruleset.

 

[Azam]

Yeah that's not a surprise that Karate made it's way into the 2020 Olympics.

There was from the beginning an effort to have a federation of different karate styles/organisations coming together in a bid to get Karate into the olympics. Not to mention a huge drive to get public support behind them - which they were managing to do quite successfully with millions of signatures as a way to seek olympic approval especially within Japan for obvious reasons.

I don't think it will be a good or bad thing for Karate as a whole. I mean in all honesty the budo/martial arts aspects of Karate have been eroding for a long time now - to the point that I'd say a lot of them aren't even martial arts but sports with a tiny bit of budo thrown in - so it doesn't completely become a sport & retains some martial arts-ness. So I don't think Karate making it to the Olympics will make that much of a difference.

Roventu makes a good point as well - that Olympic status can get more potential people into martial arts which is always a good thing. Those that practice for several years will eventually come across the budo/martial arts aspects - so it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Also just to add further there is no guarantee that Karate will make it beyond the Tokyo 2020 Olympics. I think it depends on the popularity of it in the Olympics and whether this popularity can be maintained or sustained outside of Japan. It's no secret that Karate is significantly bigger in Japan than it is outside of Japan - by quite a large margin because after all it's native to the area.

I'm not to sure if we will see it as a regular Olympic sport after 2020 especially when it's not that much differentiated from TKD.

 

[Tayski]

you're only looking at the negatives IMO. karate is niche, martial arts in general are niche. the bigger the audience, the more participants. yeah there will be more gyms, which means there will be more mcdojos. but with higher interest will come better gyms too. i think everyone should learn a martial art. the first part is getting them inside the bubble. then if theyre in it for a few years, they will upgrade to a better gym.

The bigger the audience, the more watered down it becomes.
Considering the format of competition being very specific and limited, a big chunk of what karate is goes down the drain. Again, look at what happened to Tae Kwon Do as it became more mainstream.

 

[usmctanker242]

Watching TKD in the Olympics is pretty sad... it's basically 2 "fighters" who squat, have their hands at their sides or even damned near behind their back, waiting for the opportunity to throw some bullshit flashy kick. There is no sense of actual self defense... it's like watching a live-action Van Damme movie. haha

Edit: So I don't think karate really needs to be in the Olympics. I'm just not interested or excited about it at all.

 

[MarcoW]

i cant remember, is wkf the crappy point fighting or the good machida one?

 

[spacetime]

WTF TKD and WKF Karate are completely different sports. The punching distribution in TKD is close to non existent. They are only allowed to punch the chest, and it scores much lower than kicks. Nobody bothers doing it. WKF Karate includes far more hand techniques.

And yes, the olympics tainted the reputation of TKD, but that's because the rules suck (completely contrary to traditional TKD where punching the face was/is allowed).

WKF Karate does allow contact, but controlled, and performed accurately.

 

[Hotora86]

WTF TKD and WKF Karate are completely different sports. The punching distribution in TKD is close to non existent. They are only allowed to punch the chest, and it scores much lower than kicks. Nobody bothers doing it. WKF Karate includes far more hand techniques.

And yes, the olympics tainted the reputation of TKD, but that's because the rules suck (completely contrary to traditional TKD where punching the face was/is allowed).

WKF Karate does allow contact, but controlled, and performed accurately.

I agree and find it surprising how some posters here said that WKF Karate is too similar to WTF TKD to be accepted. As much as I hate WKF its rules are still better than WTF TKD. WTF TKD would actually benefit from WKF rules since punches would be back (duh) and flashy kicks would still be awarded more points - so no need to get rid of them or change your training much. The benefits would be that different TKD (and even Karate) schools would have a chance of competing with simple punches and kicks and WTF TKD guys would finally have to PUT THEIR DAMNED HANDS UP!!!

 

[Thycidides]

I think karate could avoid becoming like TKD and they will probably try to make it look distinct from that sport too. Judo in the Olympics is still pretty brutal, you can win by throwing your opponent one their head or breaking their arm if they don't tap. Most of the silly rules in Judo are to make it look less like wrestling and encourage big throw. The big throw is much more painful than a double leg takedown.

If they cared about people's health they wouldn't let Teddy Riner KO smaller opponents by slamming them on their head.

 

[PivotPunch]

I think karate could avoid becoming like TKD and they will probably try to make it look distinct from that sport too. Judo in the Olympics is still pretty brutal, you can win by throwing your opponent one their head or breaking their arm if they don't tap. Most of the silly rules in Judo are to make it look less like wrestling and encourage big throw. The big throw is much more painful than a double leg takedown.

If they cared about people's health they wouldn't let Teddy Riner KO smaller opponents by slamming them on their head.

Judo got mutilated in the Olympics. I don't think Karate will though as it needs to be different from TKD.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

WKF Karate is as comparable to WTF TKD as wrestling is compared to Judo.

WKF allows and scores for face punches, cloth/arm grabs I believe along with foot sweeps. None of that is in TKD and those are some pretty big differences in a sport.

 

[weezul]

Not sure why it's labelled no contact though. The correct terminology is light contact. There is plenty of contact in those too, including nose bleeds, it's just that they don't try and KO each other.

This is what differentiates it from shadow boxing or dancing. My background is point karate, and although I agree with some of what's been said so far, it's not just whiffing limbs about in the air. I've had stitches to my eye, had my fibula broken from a foot sweep, had countless joint injuries to the hand, and of course, the awesome front kick to the groin.

Watching TKD in the Olympics is pretty sad... it's basically 2 "fighters" who squat, have their hands at their sides or even damned near behind their back, waiting for the opportunity to throw some bullshit flashy kick. There is no sense of actual self defense... it's like watching a live-action Van Damme movie. haha

Edit: So I don't think karate really needs to be in the Olympics. I'm just not interested or excited about it at all.

I can't watch TKD either. The kicks are cool, but I never understood the complete lack of hands in the sport.

My opinion. Sport karate is fun. If you know what you're watching, it can be fun too. But...I've watched way too many terrible matches where 2 guys bounce up and down and then make one punch, followed by a soccer-like display of overacting. Maybe I'm dissing a sport I used to be involved in, but I'd rather keep it out of the Olympics too.

 

[NHB7]

Any martial art we can get in the olympics, I'm happy. Yes I'd prefer sone over others, but I'll take what I can get.

 

[Tayski]

My background is point karate, and although I agree with some of what's been said so far, it's not just whiffing limbs about in the air. I've had stitches to my eye, had my fibula broken from a foot sweep, had countless joint injuries to the hand, and of course, the awesome front kick to the groin.

My opinion. Sport karate is fun. If you know what you're watching, it can be fun too. But...I've watched way too many terrible matches where 2 guys bounce up and down and then make one punch, followed by a soccer-like display of overacting. Maybe I'm dissing a sport I used to be involved in, but I'd rather keep it out of the Olympics too.

The strikes are supposed to be controlled and not do any damage. If something lands and does damage this means you usually get warnings, lose points or get disqualified. This also means that even if your opponent knocks you out with one of his strikes, you will essentially win the match.

There are reasons why you may accidentally get injured and that's because:
1. As the strikes are supposed to be controlled you don't expect your opponent to make contact and hurt you.
2. You don't focus on body conditioning as part of your training, which means you're more likely to get hurt if something lands than if you trained and conditioning your body to handle getting hit.

If I look at the injuries you listed, basically they are either because your opponent didn't control his strikes which is against the rules, or because you didn't condition your body/hands to take or land strikes with contact.

It's similar to how footballers get more severe injuries than rugbymen, as it's not supposed to be any contact in football and they're not conditioned to handle contact.

You can't use the fact there are some accidental injuries in WKF Karate to say it's a tough sport.
You also nailed it with how there's a lot of over-acting when throwing something to influence the judges into scoring in your favour. I also hate how they celebrate when they win their match. It's just not what the budo spirit is about IMO.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Yo fuck the olympics

 

[Azam]

Personally it would be nice for there to be a uniform Karate competition format that all styles can compete in. I don't particularly like the idea of a point fighting WKF type competition format because I just find it ahhh. It's weird how boxing is allowed to be particularly brutal with the head trauma & judo with the throws but other arts have to be more hands off.

I also hate how they celebrate when they win their match. It's just not what the budo spirit is about IMO.

I'm with the Diaz brothers on this - there is no budo in competition. When you want to hurt someone regardless of whether it is competition - you're going against what budo is meant to be. It's hypocritical and funny to beat someone up in a competition and then say you have the budo spirit when you behave respectfully after beating them up or knocking them out - that goes without having to be respectful - the respectful thing would be not to do it in the first place. So in that regard WKF Karate is no different to any other Karate format.

I know in Karate - so much emphasis is placed on budo & especially bushido for many. I've had instructors talk about bushido without realising how bloodthirsty and inhumane the vast majority of samurai were and for some reason there is some insane insistence on it in Karate - I think if more people were aware of what bushido actually was & the history of the samurai - people would stop bringing it up.

 

[spacetime]

Personally it would be nice for there to be a uniform Karate competition format that all styles can compete in. I don't particularly like the idea of a point fighting WKF type competition format because I just find it ahhh. It's weird how boxing is allowed to be particularly brutal with the head trauma & judo with the throws but other arts have to be more hands off.

.

Point fighting is true to the original principle: one punch, one kill. The full contact styles are not, for all their positives.

 

[Tayski]

I'm with the Diaz brothers on this - there is no budo in competition. When you want to hurt someone regardless of whether it is competition - you're going against what budo is meant to be. It's hypocritical and funny to beat someone up in a competition and then say you have the budo spirit when you behave respectfully after beating them up or knocking them out - that goes without having to be respectful - the respectful thing would be not to do it in the first place. So in that regard WKF Karate is no different to any other Karate format.

I know in Karate - so much emphasis is placed on budo & especially bushido for many. I've had instructors talk about bushido without realising how bloodthirsty and inhumane the vast majority of samurai were and for some reason there is some insane insistence on it in Karate - I think if more people were aware of what bushido actually was & the history of the samurai - people would stop bringing it up.

Except that nobody gets hurt in WKF Karate, unless it's an accident. So what you're saying doesn't apply here.

Some of the principles of Bushido according to Nitobe Inazo are righteousness, respect, honour, and self-control. So it's kind of on topic of what we were discussing here.

Whatever the way we argue about this, one can't deny this looks a much more controlled and respectful reaction after winning:


Than this: