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Outside of combat sports no-one is getting beaten to a pulp for losing?
How about sports like rugby and american football where you can go full impact against the other team, take them down while at full speed, etc?
Those also are sports where one person can get hurt or knocked out or get long term health issues caused by another person.
Those are intrinsically different sports - they might be full contact like combat sports but the aim is not to physically damage your opponent so it's hardly the same thing. I mean if you physically punch someone in Rugby you'd probably get fined & in some cases encounter legal issues as some rugby players have with police reports - whereas in a ring/cage that's the objective.
Personally I have no problem with 2 compliant adults wanting to fight to the death. We're not far off with MMA to be honest.
I'd argue in that case that if we really feel that way about two compliant adults fighting to death - are we any different from the baying mob of the Colosseum watching two gladiators mutilate & maim one another?
There is no false pretense in wanting to compete and respecting your opponent before and after the match/fight. Let's take an example, GSP, do you believe he's pretending to respect his opponents before and after? Do you think he really wants to hurt/kill them?
How else are you supposed to test your fighting skills and spirit unless in a real fight with rules?
Of course there is a false pretense how can honestly respect an opponent before/after when you're about to show them no respect by beating their head in. It's like me beating you close to death and then respecting you as you're lying their bloody broken & bruised (not that I would ever want to do that to anyone or you lol) - you don't see the irony in that?
It's ironical to say you're not thinking of the well-being of the other guy you're fighting. First of all trying to win a sanctioned fight with rules doesn't mean you want your opponent to get badly injured or killed. Secondly, a large number of people on this planet do not think about the well-being of others, be it in a sport environment, out in the street, at work, wherever. So yeah you could say someone who's competing in a fight is probably not thinking of the well-being of his opponent, just like he probably wouldn't be thinking about the other guy's well-being if they were just strangers walking pass in the streets.
True that many people don't really care about the well-being of others but then again those people that don't care about the well being of others don't go around caving people's head in - so it's hardly the same thing. Fighting by it's nature is the will to want to hurt something. If you care about someone's well being or you don't want to cause another human being harm - you simply don't compete or fight. To compete or fight means you're ok with hurting your opponent. Of course you might not want to kill the person you're fighting but that's the chaos of fighting - when your flinging bone at someone's head there is always the possibility of serious injury or death. I mean it happens in combat sports - death & serious injury.
To still go through with it means you have to put your basic humanity aside. That's why I find it so hypocritical when respect & fighting comes up in the same sentence.
Where being compliant makes a difference is that you are aware of the risks, you know what your opponent is going to try to do to you as you're trying to do exactly the same thing, and most importantly it's your choice to be doing this and being there.
True - my issue is not with whether people want to fight each other. My issue is more with bringing budo spirit, respect & other noble things into something that as far away as noble as you can get - and that is to fight.
Sparring is actually a worse example as the line between light sparring and a KO happening is quite thin depending on who you're sparring with, and here it was actually not part of the deal to get KO'd.
I've only competed a couple of times in a full contact environment and I had nothing but respect for my opponent. We know the rules, we know what the objective is. I don't have to hate them and I don't particularly want them to be injured or dead. I just want to win by the rules and will show my respect before and after the fight, and I would also argue respect during the fight as I will not purposely throw any dirty shots that are against the rules to gain an advantage. For me that's respect.
You say it's normal human behavior not to celebrate after knocking someone out or injuring them, yet the majority of people celebrate after doing so. Maybe it's not so human after all?
In the end I guess it's all a matter of opinion. So I will let you listen to the Diaz brothers about fighting not being about respect (hell they definitely act like it), while imagining that if you ever competed in a full contact environment you would not be respectful to your opponent.
I'd say Tay that doesn't have anything to do with respecting your opponent and more to do with you respecting the rules of engagement. If you truly respect someone - like for example a friend or a parent you don't want to hurt them. The reason people get in there and fight with other people is precisely because they don't know them, don't respect them and don't mind beating them up to win. I'm just saying acknowledge that and drop the respect/budo spirit bullcrap - not you specifically but people who bring that crap up.
Of course it's normal behaviour - or it should be. I'm sure that neither of us would celebrate after hurting or injuring someone. People that do celebrate things like that need to work on themselves.
Sure it's a difference in opinion. The Diaz brothers are pretty respectable outside of the cage from what I've seen of them and I like their attitudes - most competitors are. It's just inside the cage they realise that the profession is not a respectable one - and that there is no such thing as respect. There are exceptions of course but I'd say they are few and far between.
I'm personally looking to compete in Kudo as you know - I'm just learning from the wisdom of two brothers who deal with that environment day in day out. I kind of see their point and have to agree with them logically speaking.