Karate in the Olympics?

Outside of combat sports no-one is getting beaten to a pulp for losing?
How about sports like rugby and american football where you can go full impact against the other team, take them down while at full speed, etc?
Those also are sports where one person can get hurt or knocked out or get long term health issues caused by another person.

Those are intrinsically different sports - they might be full contact like combat sports but the aim is not to physically damage your opponent so it's hardly the same thing. I mean if you physically punch someone in Rugby you'd probably get fined & in some cases encounter legal issues as some rugby players have with police reports - whereas in a ring/cage that's the objective.

Personally I have no problem with 2 compliant adults wanting to fight to the death. We're not far off with MMA to be honest.

I'd argue in that case that if we really feel that way about two compliant adults fighting to death - are we any different from the baying mob of the Colosseum watching two gladiators mutilate & maim one another?

There is no false pretense in wanting to compete and respecting your opponent before and after the match/fight. Let's take an example, GSP, do you believe he's pretending to respect his opponents before and after? Do you think he really wants to hurt/kill them?
How else are you supposed to test your fighting skills and spirit unless in a real fight with rules?

Of course there is a false pretense how can honestly respect an opponent before/after when you're about to show them no respect by beating their head in. It's like me beating you close to death and then respecting you as you're lying their bloody broken & bruised (not that I would ever want to do that to anyone or you lol) - you don't see the irony in that?

It's ironical to say you're not thinking of the well-being of the other guy you're fighting. First of all trying to win a sanctioned fight with rules doesn't mean you want your opponent to get badly injured or killed. Secondly, a large number of people on this planet do not think about the well-being of others, be it in a sport environment, out in the street, at work, wherever. So yeah you could say someone who's competing in a fight is probably not thinking of the well-being of his opponent, just like he probably wouldn't be thinking about the other guy's well-being if they were just strangers walking pass in the streets.

True that many people don't really care about the well-being of others but then again those people that don't care about the well being of others don't go around caving people's head in - so it's hardly the same thing. Fighting by it's nature is the will to want to hurt something. If you care about someone's well being or you don't want to cause another human being harm - you simply don't compete or fight. To compete or fight means you're ok with hurting your opponent. Of course you might not want to kill the person you're fighting but that's the chaos of fighting - when your flinging bone at someone's head there is always the possibility of serious injury or death. I mean it happens in combat sports - death & serious injury.

To still go through with it means you have to put your basic humanity aside. That's why I find it so hypocritical when respect & fighting comes up in the same sentence.

Where being compliant makes a difference is that you are aware of the risks, you know what your opponent is going to try to do to you as you're trying to do exactly the same thing, and most importantly it's your choice to be doing this and being there.

True - my issue is not with whether people want to fight each other. My issue is more with bringing budo spirit, respect & other noble things into something that as far away as noble as you can get - and that is to fight.

Sparring is actually a worse example as the line between light sparring and a KO happening is quite thin depending on who you're sparring with, and here it was actually not part of the deal to get KO'd.

I've only competed a couple of times in a full contact environment and I had nothing but respect for my opponent. We know the rules, we know what the objective is. I don't have to hate them and I don't particularly want them to be injured or dead. I just want to win by the rules and will show my respect before and after the fight, and I would also argue respect during the fight as I will not purposely throw any dirty shots that are against the rules to gain an advantage. For me that's respect.

You say it's normal human behavior not to celebrate after knocking someone out or injuring them, yet the majority of people celebrate after doing so. Maybe it's not so human after all? ;)

In the end I guess it's all a matter of opinion. So I will let you listen to the Diaz brothers about fighting not being about respect (hell they definitely act like it), while imagining that if you ever competed in a full contact environment you would not be respectful to your opponent.

I'd say Tay that doesn't have anything to do with respecting your opponent and more to do with you respecting the rules of engagement. If you truly respect someone - like for example a friend or a parent you don't want to hurt them. The reason people get in there and fight with other people is precisely because they don't know them, don't respect them and don't mind beating them up to win. I'm just saying acknowledge that and drop the respect/budo spirit bullcrap - not you specifically but people who bring that crap up.

Of course it's normal behaviour - or it should be. I'm sure that neither of us would celebrate after hurting or injuring someone. People that do celebrate things like that need to work on themselves.

Sure it's a difference in opinion. The Diaz brothers are pretty respectable outside of the cage from what I've seen of them and I like their attitudes - most competitors are. It's just inside the cage they realise that the profession is not a respectable one - and that there is no such thing as respect. There are exceptions of course but I'd say they are few and far between.

I'm personally looking to compete in Kudo as you know - I'm just learning from the wisdom of two brothers who deal with that environment day in day out. I kind of see their point and have to agree with them logically speaking.
 
Sure - quite a lot of veterans write books about their experiences. American Sniper is one such book however it was a very US centric thing although the movie reached a world wide audience. Most other veterans or modern day military experts that write books about these topics don't really get the same world wide following that books like Sun Tzu The art of War gets - if you get what I mean.

Most of the popular combat related books are from the past - like Musashi's book of 5 rings, Sun Tzu's Art of War, Hagakure, Niccolo Machiavelli - art of War etc etc - especially among martial artists. Noted that most of the people that write these books are killers for lack of a better word - in some cases straight up murderers.

It's weird that if someone did that in this day & age and wrote a book about there tactics to kill people, strategy & life philisophy, it wouldn't be popular (of course you have one or two that are the exception) but most veterans that write books about their experiences do not get Sun Tzu or Musashi's global following. I'd even argue the book American Sniper wasn't as popular in Europe or elsewhere the way it was in the US.

I mean just read that in bold - you have to kill people & be a killer to grow more compassionate - for real? I don't think the people they killed would agree with there new sense of compassion - it's all abit meh.

I think the case that Musashi attitude is almost always quoted is because of a fascination with the man & his time rather than anything else. If more martial artists picked up a history book and did a little more reading on Musashi & the samurai of his era they'd be utterly repulsed at the things they did. Sure they weren't the only group that did messed up stufff - but they are the only group that for some reason are elevated in the martial arts world especially among traditional styles & a lot of it comes from the fact that many of those that bring up bushido, budo spirit or samurai in martial arts as a means of inspiration or lifestyle simply live in lala land and haven't picked up a history book on the topic.
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"American Sniper" made hundreds of millions of dollars in the box office. It was popular worldwide not just USA http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2179136/business?ref_=tt_ql_dt_4 Compare that to this movie about Bushido and Samurai http://www.bing.com/search?q=13+ass...id=795A3EF2DCA04DADA1E5F88376C66EC7&FORM=QBRE

USA is a very militarized place and if one goes to university and studies military history and Political Science the syllabus will more likely have readings about military tactics and strategy from living veterans who killed people or gave the order. One will also read classics like Sun Tzu and be told to compare it to current military doctrine. I spent a lot of time reading classics and my professors were very keen to let me know it was applicable to modern warfare. Even mainstream mass market editions of Sun Tzu and Machiavelli will have an introduction connecting the text to current events.

USA also has a very highly regarded university system and people come from all over the world to study those subjects in USA universities. At the same time a lot of foreign countries will teach an American curriculum especially in their military academies. I bet there are more students at those places than in karate dojos, but if you disagree I'd like to see the numbers.

That being said, America is also unique "exceptional" place so I understand a lot of what I posted seems really strange to you.


Anyway as an American I can confidently say American football is very unique to USA and is a intentionally violent and militarized. The military sponsors the NFL and uses it as recruitment tool. A lot of people play and watch football for the big hits and tackles. It is a very violent game and very unique to America.
Its similar to how some people do boxing because they think it is a fun sport that teaches respect and builds character, and some people do it because they like hurting people. Some do it for both reasons. A few fight because it is the only way they know how to make a living,

I'm not sure why one would compete in a hard contact sport of any kind if none of those things applied to them.

I was having some doubts about training Mauy Thai until I did a hard sparring round that was more like a competition round than normal sparring. Normally I go light in sparring but this time I went hard, noticeably bothering my training partner and I liked it. However, I got hit a lot so coach thinks I need more time before I get to fight. I was proud of myself though because earlier he told me he didn't think I could compete at all or handle getting hit in the face. It may be that I am never ready to fight myself. but I can help my team mates prepare for theirs. That is a worthy goal to have.

It sounds like you are having even deeper doubts than I did. Why do you want to compete?
 
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Italy won the gold medal in 75 kg division with Luigi Busà, who defeated Rafael Aghayev.
 
Saudi guy got screwed for being a good fighter Just like Yan
they initially gave him a point and when the other guy didn't wake up they DQ'd him...what a sport

 
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He had a flash that he was in am MMA match- what's wrong with that?
 
sports is about being smarter than the competition

if you can use the rules to your advantage and win, why not do it?

it's a fault with the rules of the game not the person who plays by the rules

KING ALJO
would destroy aldo btw
 
The whole idea of Karate at olympics was a joke. The quality level in kumite was laughable bad and the ruleset idiotic.

It was like two ADHD patients jumping around with no guard at all. Thank god its history.

If they want high quality opponents use what Andy Hug thought of more than 20years ago and create a K1 like competition were everyone from MT, San Shou, Kickboxing, Karate ect can compete in full contact.
 
It was a well timed kick from the front leg, it wasn't a power roundhouse. This a complete joke.
 
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