Kicking the heavy bag

UWanaPlayDaGame

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I recorded myself kicking the heavy bag last night and was appalled at all the stupid shit I was doing. This is actually the video where I look the least terrible - in other sequences I was doing an even worse left hand shimmy than in the ending of this one. Anyway please tell me what's good (is there anything?) and bad in my round kicks:

 
Nice, putting your shin into it.

Personally I think it’s good that you are swinging your right hand, at times I think you could swing it a bit higher to potentially obscure your opponents vision.
 
Nice, putting your shin into it.

Personally I think it’s good that you are swinging your right hand, at times I think you could swing it a bit higher to potentially obscure your opponents vision.

That's good but I think I should be crossing the right arm much closer to my face before unleashing the kick (I believe you should be touching your own shoulder when you do that) and I don't know what to do with my left hand when I start that motion - watching in slow motion I noticed that I take the left hand out of the way which completely opens me up right before I'll throw the kick.
 
Need a better angle to see what's going on. Everything below your thighs is cut off so I can't see your footwork, stance, or how you start the kick, and you're also hidden behind the bag half the time so it's blocking the view on your kicks and body positioning. Film from another angle so we can see your entire body before & during the kick, that way we'll have a much better idea of what's going on.
 
Need a better angle to see what's going on. Everything below your thighs is cut off so I can't see your footwork, stance, or how you start the kick, and you're also hidden behind the bag half the time so it's blocking the view on your kicks and body positioning. Film from another angle so we can see your entire body before & during the kick, that way we'll have a much better idea of what's going on.

Yes I was all by myself in that room and that was the only place where I could hang my phone. and that hand shimmy was so blatant I felt like taking advice on that kick-starting motion since I was never taught that in a gym - it´s something I picked up from watching muay thai fights.
 
Need a better angle to see what's going on. Everything below your thighs is cut off so I can't see your footwork, stance, or how you start the kick, and you're also hidden behind the bag half the time so it's blocking the view on your kicks and body positioning. Film from another angle so we can see your entire body before & during the kick, that way we'll have a much better idea of what's going on.



this one is not very good either but you can see different things.
 
Watching videos of yourself is usually uncomfortable. I find that I am appalled when I first watch videos of myself. I keep watching it over and over until I can start to see the good things that I do. In the end, I finish up with a fairly balanced perspective of how I performed. It is a beneficial but uncomfortable process.
 
The main problem I see is you're not starting the kick properly, and your leg is too straight & stiff for most of the kick. What you're doing now is using the momentum from a forward step along with your upper body motion and arm swings to lift & pull your kicking leg off the ground and then swing it into the kick. Your upper body and hips don't rotate far enough so what happens is you're pulling your kicking leg up off the ground and then pushing it into the target, this really messes up the power transfer and balance on the kick.

A good kick starts with a strong drive off the kicking leg, you want to use your calf & ankle to pop the leg off the ground instead of pulling it with your body & hips. Your leg will come up with about a 90 degree bend in the knee instead of mostly straight like it is now. As your kicking leg comes off the ground, you'll need to pivot your base foot around and use some of the momentum from the drive to rotate your hips & upper body around so that they point at the target, and then your hips will pull the kicking leg through the target as it straightens out. In short, do what these guys are doing, their kicks are pretty much textbook. Slow the video down all the way so you can see actually see how their kicks work.

 


this one is not very good either but you can see different things.

Everything is wrong and you are losing balance with every kick. Don't worry about your arms for now, just do these 2 things for me:
- Don't step to generate power (that's for people who already have the mechanic down)
- Don't kick in a straight line

Instead of writing a long explanation, I've drawn a graphic:

NIwo58g.png
 
Everything is wrong and you are losing balance with every kick. Don't worry about your arms for now, just do these 2 things for me:
- Don't step to generate power (that's for people who already have the mechanic down)
- Don't kick in a straight line

Instead of writing a long explanation, I've drawn a graphic:

NIwo58g.png

Not sure what you mean with the bottom-right part. to do that would you lift the knee straight up then rotate? are you referring to kicking without breaking your "frame" so you hide the height where it's going and don't telegraph? I like to do that but it feels like I'm losing some momentum. probably when I get excited and try to kick with more power this goes out the window.
 
Not sure what you mean with the bottom-right part. to do that would you lift the knee straight up then rotate? are you referring to kicking without breaking your "frame" so you hide the height where it's going and don't telegraph? I like to do that but it feels like I'm losing some momentum. probably when I get excited and try to kick with more power this goes out the window.
Your kick is almost a soccer kick. It looks like you're picking up something off the ground with your foot and trying to send it over a fence. Such kick will get checked 100% of the time. You will never land a single one.

soccer-1527532_960_720.jpg



A muay thai kick (doesn't matter of it's low, middle or high) is like a baseball bat swung horizontally. You want to chop the bag in half, not make it swing towards the ceiling.

Buakaw-Por-Pramuk-vs-Dzhabar-Askerov-0072.jpg
 
Your kick is almost a soccer kick. It looks like you're picking up something off the ground with your foot and trying to send it over a fence. Such kick will get checked 100% of the time. You will never land a single one.

soccer-1527532_960_720.jpg



A muay thai kick (doesn't matter of it's low, middle or high) is like a baseball bat swung horizontally. You want to chop the bag in half, not make it swing towards the ceiling.

Buakaw-Por-Pramuk-vs-Dzhabar-Askerov-0072.jpg

You're exaggerating a little bit.

snpd9c.png


But thanks for your time I will be trying to clean up technique next time.
 
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Not sure what you mean with the bottom-right part. to do that would you lift the knee straight up then rotate? are you referring to kicking without breaking your "frame" so you hide the height where it's going and don't telegraph? I like to do that but it feels like I'm losing some momentum. probably when I get excited and try to kick with more power this goes out the window.

You're losing momentum because a lot of your mechanics are off.

First, read this. There's a lot to digest so take your time.
https://8limbsus.com/muay-thai-thailand/golden-kick-how-to-improve-your-thai-kick

Now that the info is fresh in your mind, watch this gif and pay close attention to the base leg, hips, and overall alignment & posture. Note the timing of when the base leg pivots around to open up the hips and align them with the target, draw a line through both hips and it points at the target, that's what you want. The upper body also stays fairly upright and it's not twisted relative to the hips. The kicking leg is accelerated and pulled through the target by your hips & body.
WindyOpenBarnowl-size_restricted.gif

What you're doing right now is rotating way short and then trying to lift & push your kicking leg into the target with your hip muscles alone which loses a ton of power & momentum. Your hips look about 30° short of the target and your upper body barely rotates around. Your body ends up holding the kick back instead of helping to rotate & drive it through.
 
I recorded myself kicking the heavy bag last night and was appalled at all the stupid shit I was doing. This is actually the video where I look the least terrible - in other sequences I was doing an even worse left hand shimmy than in the ending of this one. Anyway please tell me what's good (is there anything?) and bad in my round kicks:



hats off to you for having the balls to put a video of yourself up on sherdog. So the video looks like you have the basic concept of kicking down. Its really hard to give you an solid advice without being able to see your supporting leg. That being said what I noticed, is your to herky jerky, it looks like your throwing your kick and then going ok its time to pivot, and trying to pivot hard.......as if you are breaking the kick down into 2 motions, the kick can be broken down into multiple motions to help you get the concept and movements down, but they should all be perform simultaneous or smoothly. Think of shooting a basketball it travels in a smooth arc, not up, and then sharply down. I am not saying your kicking sharply down, just trying to emphasize making your kick one smooth motion, rather than 2.

The next thing would be when you are kicking the bag.....once the bag starts swinging, you should be kicking it when its swinging your direction, not while its swinging away...think of the timing on hitting a baseball with a bat, its the same concept on the bag.

Lastly I would have to disagree with not stepping to the side, stepping to the side is the most important aspect of kicking IMO. If you get into the habit of not stepping to the side now, it will be a bad habit harder to break later on. Also stepping to the side, generates more power, and you also have to pivot less than if you didnt. The way I teach my students to kick is similar to the fight club movie quote of rule number 1 is dont talk about fight club and rule number 2 is dont talk about fight club.......well my rules are 1) step to the side 2) STEP TO THE SIDE!!

that being said, theres a ton of different minor variations on kicking, I prefer to kick the way bas rutten explains in his tutorial I can never seem to find online again....anywayss just shoot for nailing the basics first, than you can play with the little variations later. It can be hard to sort whats what with all the bullshit on youtube because theres a ton of wrong information on there. I would suggest using this for your basic guideline.

 
Nice to see you training, man! Are you attending muay thai classes anywhere? If not I can ask around what are some good places to train legit Muay Thai in your city (if you still live in the same place you told me some months ago).

Now for your kick, for me what really made a difference in understanding the muay thai kick was something @SAAMAG told me years ago: Lead with your hips! Stepping facilitates that, for sure. If you pay attention to the video Shincheckin posted above you'll see a couple things happening simultaneously while the kicker steps:
- extension of his right hip
- flexion of the supporting leg with the foot planted
- turning of the torso
- arm positioning, same side arm goes across both to guard the face and to prepare the swing (I like it more horizontal than he does, like really hiding your shin and nose, only the eyes uncovered) the other arm drops close to the body

He does all those thing slightly different when he kicks multiple times, but you get the concept. See, all this lead to positioning yourself in an optimal way to fire the kick itself. At the end of the day I personally see the Muay Thai kick as a two phases technique: loading/positioning and the kick itself





In my last clip you can see that the right hip goes forward with the first kick and doesn't come back. The hips are already in position to facilitate the kick. The foot should land behind the supporting leg, which causes the extension in the right hip. Makes sense?
 
Yes, beginners and guys with background in other arts. I have a Sanda guy now and he does it a lot. Seems that a bent leg, pivoting on the spot instead of stepping can give you some speed, but still, I prefer the thai method (little bend on the entry/step and extends as you fire the kick) and in a fight its all about timing and disguising it with footwork and feints, not pure speed
 
You're exaggerating a little bit.

snpd9c.png


But thanks for your time I will be trying to clean up technique next time.
A single picture taken from the worst angle doesn't show me anything I haven't seen from watching your 2 videos. If anything, the "shadow" of your leg clearly indicates the kick is coming from below, not from the side.

I can tell you're on the defensive but please rewatch the videos. All your kicks have this trajectory:

FRzH4Ir.png


MmLXYXk.png


Your toes are almost pointing at the ceiling because you're kicking up:

WGYP0Ri.png


Now compare that to:

SSsdNM0.png


Look at the toes:

6739400467_02649c1556_b.jpg


Lastly I would have to disagree with not stepping to the side, stepping to the side is the most important aspect of kicking IMO. If you get into the habit of not stepping to the side now, it will be a bad habit harder to break later on. Also stepping to the side, generates more power, and you also have to pivot less than if you didnt. The way I teach my students to kick is similar to the fight club movie quote of rule number 1 is dont talk about fight club and rule number 2 is dont talk about fight club.......well my rules are 1) step to the side 2) STEP TO THE SIDE!!

that being said, theres a ton of different minor variations on kicking, I prefer to kick the way bas rutten explains in his tutorial I can never seem to find online again....
As you just said, stepping to the side makes it so that you have to pivot less. It's a way to shortcut the movements one has to make. As such, it's very good for people who have already learned how to engage their hips properly but very bad for people who haven't learned it yet.

Stepping in muay thai is like stepping in boxing. You're supposed to step on the punch but if you can't even punch without stepping then learn to do it correctly first before incorporating the step.

Bas Rutten is the last person I would go to for striking advice. I've watched his instructional series. His motto is "every coach recommends to do this but you don't have to". He advocates not turning the fist on the jab and cross, not pivoting the supporting leg on the roundhouse kick and standing almost completely square with both feet pointing at the opponent. That's the exact opposite of what all the coaches in the world teach.
 
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In the little clip showing Manop holding pads for Singdam and Saenchai both of them kick diagonally upwards. Same for the instructional posted by Shincheckin.

Buakaw doesn't kick in the most traditional way for a thai but even in the photo posted by StopDucking (Buakaw vs Askerov) if you watch to where his knee is pointing you can guess the trajectory of his kick.

/

The second Buakaw photo posted by StopDucking have an arched arrow drawn, but watch any clip of Buakaw kicking in shadowboxing and you'll see that any downward arch happens past the kick going through the target. Quickest way to return to base if you're practicing the kick going through.

Not trying to start an argument, nor trying to disqualify anyone's opinion and tips. Just passing along my perspective. I attended a seminar with Manop and he demonstrated every basic strike there is, including shin kicks and that was how he taught them. I'll stick to it.

Coming up and then horizontal is not the way most thai fighters will kick.
 
You're losing momentum because a lot of your mechanics are off.

First, read this. There's a lot to digest so take your time.
https://8limbsus.com/muay-thai-thailand/golden-kick-how-to-improve-your-thai-kick

Now that the info is fresh in your mind, watch this gif and pay close attention to the base leg, hips, and overall alignment & posture. Note the timing of when the base leg pivots around to open up the hips and align them with the target, draw a line through both hips and it points at the target, that's what you want. The upper body also stays fairly upright and it's not twisted relative to the hips. The kicking leg is accelerated and pulled through the target by your hips & body.
WindyOpenBarnowl-size_restricted.gif

What you're doing right now is rotating way short and then trying to lift & push your kicking leg into the target with your hip muscles alone which loses a ton of power & momentum. Your hips look about 30° short of the target and your upper body barely rotates around. Your body ends up holding the kick back instead of helping to rotate & drive it through.

This movement is what I mentioned in an earlier post (great read btw thanks!). I like to mix that style sometimes and on one hand it feels like I have to break the motion after lifting the kicking leg, then rotate the hip - feels weird and slow; on the other hand it looks like it lands quite powerful on the bag. I'm probably doing something wrong there or neglecting some important aspect of the motion.

But this brings me to my point which is that even if you find out that golden era fighters used to do that, for a white boy back home it's probably best not to change the mechanics you've been drilling for years because Sylvie von Douglas made a blogpost about it. there is obviously some valuable info there but I wouldn't go on absolute terms and state you should kick that way.

Also looking at the video on the link I see that most thais there a) throw and land kicks that travel on an upward angle all the time; and b) don't visually rotate their upper body that much all the time.

Not sure what my point is anymore other than there is a lot of contradictory info about round kick technique.
 
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