Mijain Lopez is the Greatest Wrestler of All Time

[winterbike]

Safe to assume prime Karelin was seriously roiding throughout his world Ang Olympic runs.

When I think about his highlight reel and how he was able to man handle other freakishly strong heavyweight wrestlers the way he did it's the only possible answer

Are you serious? Jesus Christ, some of you with all your whining about steroids. Of course he was taking steroids, because THEY WERE ALL JUICED TO THE GILLS. Get over it, he beat them all anyway.

 

[listrahtes]

Its pretty crazy that Yoel should probably be, a 3x world champion at least.

I have a very hard time seeing Romeros losses to Saitiev as him throwing the fights. Saitiev outmaneuvered him with sheer skill and regarding that he is just the better overall wrestler.

Watch the matches.

 

[jack36767]

I have long heard the conjecture about Cuban wrestlers throwing matches, but I've never really heard an explanation about why they do it. Is it straight up bribery, or some weird sportsmanship quirk unique to that athletic culture. Certainly in Yoel Romero's MMA fights one often gets the sense that he's losing rounds that he otherwise should have no trouble winning.

When you train in a system where if you aren’t the number one at your weight you literally are given less food.. and your families are in poverty and you are one of the primary breadwinners.. that $40,000 or more that someone might bribe you is literally life changing.. money that can go to your family, buy a new house etc.

Like I said, even if you don’t like Joe Rohan listen to the Matt Brown and Yoel Romero podcasts and what the environment is like in Cuba. I know it’s easy for some to call any idea you want a vague conspiracy theory.. but the both the incentives and evidence is there

 

[jack36767]

I have a very hard time seeing Romeros losses to Saitiev as him throwing the fights. Saitiev outmaneuvered him with sheer skill and regarding that he is just the better overall wrestler.

Watch the matches.

I have, his matches in 04 were definitely more sketch than the Satiev matches. And I like how your suddenly ignoring whether or not Lopez did or didn’t

 

[ArtemV]

Saitiev > Romero all day and every day!

 

[Chungungo]

When you train in a system where if you aren’t the number one at your weight you literally are given less food.. and your families are in poverty and you are one of the primary breadwinners.. that $40,000 or more that someone might bribe you is literally life changing.. money that can go to your family, buy a new house etc.

Like I said, even if you don’t like Joe Rohan listen to the Matt Brown and Yoel Romero podcasts and what the environment is like in Cuba. I know it’s easy for some to call any idea you want a vague conspiracy theory.. but the both the incentives and evidence is there

Here in Chile Mijain´s sparring (who will never be number one because of López) competes for my country now just like a cuban weightlifter that is very good but based in what they have said throwing matches don´t make sense, winning all the time would be the ideal but who knows anyway.

 

[dsdoubled]

I have a very hard time seeing Romeros losses to Saitiev as him throwing the fights. Saitiev outmaneuvered him with sheer skill and regarding that he is just the better overall wrestler.

Watch the matches.

Read the comment. My comment, not the comment I replied to. I didn't say he threw either match to Saitiev. I do think he got screwed by the judges in the rematch and deserved the win. At the Olympics however he just got beat. I do think he threw the 2005 match at worlds against the Georgian. And then you have the 99 worlds which he actually won. That makes 3. Hence the comment "he should be at least a 3x world champ.

 

[listrahtes]

I have, his matches in 04 were definitely more sketch than the Satiev matches. And I like how your suddenly ignoring whether or not Lopez did or didn’t

I did not ignore Lopez . I just dont have enough knowledge to have an opinion on wether he lost matches on purpose. Romero was brought up in this thread and there I dont see any deliberate loss vs Saitiev. Thats all. Relax.

 

[tekkenfan]

Saitiev > Romero all day and every day!

do you really think he gave adam the gold?

 

[dsdoubled]

When you train in a system where if you aren’t the number one at your weight you literally are given less food.. and your families are in poverty and you are one of the primary breadwinners.. that $40,000 or more that someone might bribe you is literally life changing.. money that can go to your family, buy a new house etc.

Like I said, even if you don’t like Joe Rohan listen to the Matt Brown and Yoel Romero podcasts and what the environment is like in Cuba. I know it’s easy for some to call any idea you want a vague conspiracy theory.. but the both the incentives and evidence is there

A wise man once said of the Cuban wrestling team,
"they are amongst the very best wrestlers in the world AND they are poor. So when I go looking in my cupboard for some moral high ground I just cant find any......"

 

[Jack Handy jr]

Are you serious? Jesus Christ, some of you with all your whining about steroids. Of course he was taking steroids, because THEY WERE ALL JUICED TO THE GILLS. Get over it, he beat them all anyway.

Not GSP bisping,askren, Marcelo Garcia. Many high level mma fighters and grapplers haven't juiced.

I don't think you've ever grappled with a guy who already has an elite skill set and taking steroids.

or you would know how much of an advantage over one's opponent steroids give.

I've trained with many BIG name mma fighters that were juicing and that I out weighed by a considerable amount and its just ridiculous when you can barely move a guys arm

Add in someone with Prime Karelins skill set and gear esp given the systemic high level scientific research of the state sponsored Russian athletic doping program a program that was regulated by the KGB FFS.

Then you get a guy IN KARELIN and the Satiev's who were essentially got damn mutants along the vein of comic book villians

 

[dsdoubled]

When you train in a system where if you aren’t the number one at your weight you literally are given less food.. and your families are in poverty and you are one of the primary breadwinners.. that $40,000 or more that someone might bribe you is literally life changing.. money that can go to your family, buy a new house etc.

Like I said, even if you don’t like Joe Rohan listen to the Matt Brown and Yoel Romero podcasts and what the environment is like in Cuba. I know it’s easy for some to call any idea you want a vague conspiracy theory.. but the both the incentives and evidence is there

That's gotta be why so many of them defect. Or at least used to defect.
Jesus Wilson
Yoel Romero (along with his brother)
Michel Batista
Gustavo Balart
Maikel Perez Gonzalez
Lazaro Reinoso
Alexis Vila
Hector Lombard
And who knows how many more.
Reinoso in particular was very vocal about getting shit on by the Cuban government when his performance started to dip.

 

[tec87]

That's gotta be why so many of them defect. Or at least used to defect.
Jesus Wilson
Yoel Romero (along with his brother)
Michel Batista
Gustavo Balart
Maikel Perez Gonzalez
Lazaro Reinoso
Alexis Vila
Hector Lombard
And who knows how many more.
Reinoso in particular was very vocal about getting shit on by the Cuban government when his performance started to dip.

Frank Chamizo is another one who defected. Now Italy has a multi-time world champ. Lol

 

[PolishHeadlock]

I have, his matches in 04 were definitely more sketch than the Satiev matches. And I like how your suddenly ignoring whether or not Lopez did or didn’t

Are you talking about the 04 Olympics or other matches in 04?

 

[dsdoubled]

Frank Chamizo is another one who defected. Now Italy has a multi-time world champ. Lol

Yes! How could I forget? Have you seen the banter back n fourth on twitter between Chamizo and Burroughs trying to set up a super match of sorts? Id love to see it.
Italy is such an oddball in International wrestling. They never medal at worlds but every decade or so produce an Olympic champ. Vincenzo Maenza won the Olympics twice in the 80s. Andrea Minguzzi won the Beijing Games. Giovanni Schillaci was a multi Olympian and multiple time world/European medalist.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

When you train in a system where if you aren’t the number one at your weight you literally are given less food.. and your families are in poverty and you are one of the primary breadwinners.. that $40,000 or more that someone might bribe you is literally life changing.. money that can go to your family, buy a new house etc.

Like I said, even if you don’t like Joe Rohan listen to the Matt Brown and Yoel Romero podcasts and what the environment is like in Cuba. I know it’s easy for some to call any idea you want a vague conspiracy theory.. but the both the incentives and evidence is there

so you think these guys are literally throwing matches for money? makes sense i guess, as far as reasons to throw matches would go. i wonder, however, why many cuban fighters like romero and lombard seem to have a curious style that alternates incredible displays of skill and athleticism with long periods of low output. they don't seem to have that relentless will to win that is a trademark of american and russian block fighters.

 

[jack36767]

so you think these guys are literally throwing matches for money? makes sense i guess, as far as reasons to throw matches would go. i wonder, however, why many cuban fighters like romero and lombard seem to have a curious style that alternates incredible displays of skill and athleticism with long periods of low output. they don't seem to have that relentless will to win that is a trademark of american and russian block fighters.

I’m not trying to be mean, I’m saying something I’ve observed in similar discussions like this

it seems like “many” of the people who doubt it, or think that Doing it “just” for money” seems to many a not adequate reason “seem” like they’ve never experienced real poverty or had family members in that kind of state. And the type of poverty I had to deal with when young is nothing compared to what the Cubans do

 

[Megabass]

4th in a row!

 

[Grappler111]

Saitiev > Romero all day and every day!

Yes

 

[Grappler111]

Yes! How could I forget? Have you seen the banter back n fourth on twitter between Chamizo and Burroughs trying to set up a super match of sorts? Id love to see it.
Italy is such an oddball in International wrestling. They never medal at worlds but every decade or so produce an Olympic champ. Vincenzo Maenza won the Olympics twice in the 80s. Andrea Minguzzi won the Beijing Games. Giovanni Schillaci was a multi Olympian and multiple time world/European medalist.

And Olympic freestyle wrestling gold medalist Claudio Pollio.