MMA as it's own style?

JohnPJones

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not going to lie, i love these collab videos with mike and seth.

so my thoughts.

if you go to school/gym/dojo/whatever where you have a coach for striking (or two) and a coach for grappling (or two) then MMA doesn't count as it's own style.

however if you have a head instructor teaching you MMA with a distinct and individual flair and they're teaching the striking and grappling it's a style (even if they have assistant instructors)
honestly i think MMA as a style would end up looking a lot like the karate or then known just as Te of okinawa in the 1890s.
 
It's rare to have a MMA gym without a headcoach, I don't think I've seen that before, only heard about that arrangement from 2 instances from people who aren't from North America.

I do think it is becoming its own style. MMA is a ruleset yes, but practitioners practice and develop based on the rules so a style ends up being formed.
  • Fence work - a whole beast on its own. Would not be the way it is if MMA was in a ring, but because the cage, its the way it is
  • GnP - much more evolved, its almost an entire sub-category with it's growth since the 90s
  • Stance and approach

Calf kicks being the popular thing today would never get traction in kick fighting, but because of the stance and gameplan required for MMA, it does have some success. It's one reason why I think its not too fair to give a harsh critique on the finer details in striking to MMA, its a hybrid sport which ends up having certain areas lack for the jack of the trades combination it brings; In a related way, I can't exactly give a strict comparison of top elite boxers to the boxing of nak muays when its in a similar boat.

I get a feeling in the future there will be more Rory Mac types that came up in MMA than the classical specialists who transitioned over.
 
The main problem I see in developing your mma game “from
zero to hero” is it’s a very time-consuming process, and you need a really good coaches in striking/grappling with needed expertise in said field who will teach you exact “striking/grappling for MMA”, not just overall techniques for pure independent arts. Never met a pro- or semi-pro who started from scratch here, would be interesting to discuss.
 
I don't think it's an unfair idea. Each little change to what's allowed changes things a fair bit. grappling with a concern for strikes, striking with concern for a takedown. Wrestling that may involve a cage wall. Why not call it it's own style?
 
Yea it can be its own style. It probably is
 
A lot of people start with MMA now, so they might be mixing martial arts, but it's not the same as back in the day when the focus of the competition was mixing martial arts IN competition. If that makes sense.
but when they're training are they or their coaches saying "i/you need to work on your boxing/bjj more" ? i think the continued reference to specific styles within MMA is what keeps it from being a style of it's own.

you don't hear people in karate talking about "oh you need more work on your tegumi" or "you need more work on your kung fu" both aspects of karate, are simply karate, the same can't be said for MMA, at least not yet.
 
but when they're training are they or their coaches saying "i/you need to work on your boxing/bjj more" ? i think the continued reference to specific styles within MMA is what keeps it from being a style of it's own.

you don't hear people in karate talking about "oh you need more work on your tegumi" or "you need more work on your kung fu" both aspects of karate, are simply karate, the same can't be said for MMA, at least not yet.
not really a point I'm trying to make
 
The main problem I see in developing your mma game “from
zero to hero” is it’s a very time-consuming process, and you need a really good coaches in striking/grappling with needed expertise in said field who will teach you exact “striking/grappling for MMA”, not just overall techniques for pure independent arts. Never met a pro- or semi-pro who started from scratch here, would be interesting to discuss.
Me and my brother started from scratch (bit of boxing experience) he definitely learnt the hard way.
 
Me and my brother started from scratch (bit of boxing experience) he definitely learnt the hard way.
So, what’s your opinion, then? Was it worth it or starting-off in some pure discipline first would be a better experience?
 
to me i started off first boxing when iw as 14 in 2005-started bjj in 2007 at 16 did each separate i feel that is the best method doing each thing separate if you are young and you want to go far cause things like boxing its hard to be decent trying to mix everything into 1 class
 
So, what’s your opinion, then? Was it worth it or starting-off in some pure discipline first would be a better experience?
A solid mastery of the basics is everything. You tend to learn better and faster, breaking the skills down to each component. Personally I'm a fan of wrestling, then boxing, followed by submission and kickboxing. Good coaches can teach all the skills involved, but it's rare and everybody favours certain aspects (I focus heavily on boxing).
 
I think it's own style now, as it should be. People can specialize with specific arts like MT, wresting, BJJ, etc.

But, as @AndyMaBobs said, people aren't blending separate arts these days so much as they're starting with the general skill set and then fine tuning different areas with separate arts.

Right now, we still credit wrestling, boxing, etc. for where the various techniques came from but in a decade, we're probably not even going to do that. It's just going to be called MMA techniques.
 
not going to lie, i love these collab videos with mike and seth.

so my thoughts.

if you go to school/gym/dojo/whatever where you have a coach for striking (or two) and a coach for grappling (or two) then MMA doesn't count as it's own style.

however if you have a head instructor teaching you MMA with a distinct and individual flair and they're teaching the striking and grappling it's a style (even if they have assistant instructors)
honestly i think MMA as a style would end up looking a lot like the karate or then known just as Te of okinawa in the 1890s.


It's as much of a style as Kickboxing. if you train techniques adapted for a certain rule set, how can it not be an art/style?

However, MMA guys do both - that is training for the sport of MMA and for the individual sports of Boxing, Jiujitsu, wrestling, Kickboxing that make up MMA.
 
Right now, we still credit wrestling, boxing, etc. for where the various techniques came from but in a decade, we're probably not even going to do that. It's just going to be called MMA techniques.

It's already a meaningless denotation. Is a choke Judo, BJJ, or Sambo? Is a right hand boxing or shoot fighting?, is a chambered roundhouse kick Karate or Taekwondo?

The different styles do have distinct deliveries but they can still overlap and it's more a question of emphasis than content when it comes to training them.

The mechanical differences when it comes to striking are so subtle that any practioner could switch at any moment.
 
It's as much of a style as Kickboxing. if you train techniques adapted for a certain rule set, how can it not be an art/style?

However, MMA guys do both - that is training for the sport of MMA and for the individual sports of Boxing, Jiujitsu, wrestling, Kickboxing that make up MMA.
as mentioned in the video what does kickboxing even mean? karate can compete in kickboxing, TKD and kung fu can compete in kickboxing, so by competing are you no longer training those styles?
also kickboxing is a general term...there are 7 different types of kickboxing, one of which is light contact...aka point fighting...so the BS karate tournaments are indeed also kickboxing...

if some random dude off the street signs up for a full contact kickboxing fight, after 2 days of punching and kicking a heavy bag, is he now a martial artist and a 'kickboxer'?
 
as mentioned in the video what does kickboxing even mean? karate can compete in kickboxing, TKD and kung fu can compete in kickboxing, so by competing are you no longer training those styles?
also kickboxing is a general term...there are 7 different types of kickboxing, one of which is light contact...aka point fighting...so the BS karate tournaments are indeed also kickboxing...

if some random dude off the street signs up for a full contact kickboxing fight, after 2 days of punching and kicking a heavy bag, is he now a martial artist and a 'kickboxer'?

I take Kickboxing to mean a mix of boxing and kicking that you learn in a gym, always wearing boxing gloves. There are styles of Kickboxing, just as there are styles of Karate. And Karate is not kickboxing since they do not wear boxing gloves and they do not use the full range of boxing punches in sparring (or the contact specificities either)
 
Some argue that a limited clinch is always a form of Kickboxing, while others feel that it can be called Dutch Muay Thai. This gets even muddier since Muay Thai has a more limited clinch as well depending on what level and which nation you are competing in.

So it would seem that it would be easiest to characterize Muay Thai as a style of Kickboxing, since the clinch definition does not cut it.
 
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This gets even muddier since Muay Thai has a more limited clinch as well depending on what level and which nation you are competing in
I'm curious for the reasons you said that MT has a more limited clinch. The sport operates that if you have sub-par KB, and if your clinch is dominant, you'll win the fights most of the time. Are you comparing the clinch in MT to a grappling sport with clinch focus like greco or Judo?
 
I'm curious for the reasons you said that MT has a more limited clinch. The sport operates that if you have sub-par KB, and if your clinch is dominant, you'll win the fights most of the time. Are you comparing the clinch in MT to a grappling sport with clinch focus like greco or Judo?

You misread. Lower level Muay Thai competition has a more limited clinch than higher level Muay Thai, hence we can't define Kickboxing based on a more limited clinch. Maybe time-limited clinches but I'm not sure there either... Point is, it's a slippery slope distingushing Kickboxing from Muay Thai based on the extent of the clinch, since this varies even within Muay Thai.
 
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