Muhammad Ali vs. Wayne Gretzky vs. Tom Brady vs. Michael Jordan?

[Based and White Pilled]

The thing people also forget is that Gretzky was almost a cripple too. His back was terrible from early 1990's. Yes Mario definitely battled a worse illness but Gretzky was constantly playing in pain too.

They're both amazing. The thing I think of though... Mario was big, strong, and fast. Gretzky did everything though using his eyes, smarts and skill. He wasn't big. He wasn't strong, and he wasn't fast. He did know where everyone on the ice was, was able to find open ice, and had extremely accurate shots and passes.

They call him The Great One for a reason

 

[Based and White Pilled]

The reason you could argue he doesn't belong is because he didn't play a team sport... And that in itself could make him the greatest athlete ever. All three of those other guys, as great as they are, still rely on an entire team to reach the highest level.

People like to write off boxers thinking it's easy... Like you just go into the to ring and throw punches... Maybe block a few. But there's a variable that's involved that the other three can't say they've had to deal with. When they have an off day their teammates are expected to help bail them out. You have an off day as a boxer, you're in for a world of hurt.

@LazaRRus

I absolutely would never write off boxers vs other athletes. It's one of the absolute hardest sports in the world to succeed in.

I do think Ali is out of place in this list, though, because he isn't the definitive GOAT in his sport.

 

[Bamboozled]

I absolutely would never write off boxers vs other athletes. It's one of the absolute hardest sports in the world to succeed in.

I do think Ali is out of place in this list, though, because he isn't the definitive GOAT in his sport.

Neither are Jordan or Brady

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Double post

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Neither are Jordan or Brady

I don't think you can make a strong argument against them from a greatest career/accomplishments standpoint, which I think is the only fair way to determine GOAT. Who was the best at their peak is an entirely different conversation that is a lot more subjective.

Edit: that is the reason I voted Gretzky, though. He is the one of the 4 who stands furthest above his peers.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

I go with Ali in this. Gretzky's records are very impressive but Ali at his best was a force of nature.

 

[Smokes]

So much disrespect in this thread. Yall actung like Mario Andretti ain't the GOAT of it All.

 

[Bamboozled]

I don't think you can make a strong argument against them from a greatest career/accomplishments standpoint, which I think is the only fair way to determine GOAT. Who was the best at their peak is an entirely different conversation that is a lot more subjective.

Edit: that is the reason I voted Gretzky, though. He is the one of the 4 who stands furthest above his peers.

You can when you attribute team success to a singular player, which most people do with Jordan and Brady. Gretzky had great teams and still out shined everyone and got the points and assists.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Gretzky had great teams and still out shined everyone

Isn't that exactly what Jordan and Brady did as well?

 

[ExitLUPin]

Neither are Jordan or Brady

MJ is near unanimously the GOAT of basketball.

You have some arguing Kareem, Russell, Wilt or Lebron. Fewer for Kobe, Duncan, Magic, Bird maybe Shaq but thats about it.

And its not really an age thing either. 2019 players were polled and MJ got 75% of the vote and the average age of the league in 2019 was 26yo. Lebron was pretty even with Kobe at 11/12%. By most fans, media, players MJ is the definitive GOAT and it isnt arguable past your own personal opinion

 

[pThree]

Jordan played against the biggest talent pool of these four so it's him

Cristiano Ronaldo is the real answer

 

[Bamboozled]

MJ is near unanimously the GOAT of basketball.

You have some arguing Kareem, Russell, Wilt or Lebron. Fewer for Kobe, Duncan, Magic, Bird maybe Shaq but thats about it.

And its not really an age thing either. 2019 players were polled and MJ got 75% of the vote and the average age of the league in 2019 was 26yo. Lebron was pretty even with Kobe at 11/12%. By most fans, media, players MJ is the definitive GOAT and it isnt arguable past your own personal opinion

It's LeGOAT and its not really a debate anymore. NBA is full of the biggest retards in sports.

 

[Bamboozled]

Isn't that exactly what Jordan and Brady did as well?

No, Jordan scored, that's all he was great at. He didn't even have a good long range game. Pippen made that team work, Jordan couldn't escape the first round.

Brady had BeliGOAT and Vinitiari and stellar defenses. He wasn't some offensive juggernaut like the NFL wants you to believe. He was a very good QB. He had one great season in year 5 and didn't really turn into a top passer in the league until 2007. Even when he was offensively his best he lost super bowls. He always was carried by elite special teams and defense. It's a team game. Brady's best super bowl performance was against the Falcons and I still think Dont'a Hightower should have won MVP.

 

[ExitLUPin]

It's LeGOAT and its not really a debate anymore. NBA is full of the biggest retards in sports.

He isn't anywhere close to GOAT TBH and a Bubble ring in a rec league environment with no travel and major outliers by players/teams doesn't change that either

He's not even top 5. MJ, Kareem, Russell, Duncan and Magic were all better. Only ppl who overrate longevity think he's even in the argument

 

[Bamboozled]

He isn't anywhere close to GOAT TBH and a Bubble ring in a rec league environment with no travel and major outliers by players/teams doesn't change that either

He's not even top 5. MJ, Kareem, Russell, Duncan and Magic were all better. Only ppl who overrate longevity think he's even in the argument

LeBron is literally the smartest and most complete player ever with more responsibility and did more with less than anyone. What the absolute fuck are you talking about?

In the same amount of seasons LeBron scored more, had more assists and rebounds than Jordan. Longevity can suck muh dick he is just better period

 

[ExitLUPin]

No, Jordan scored, that's all he was great at. He didn't even have a good long range game. Pippen made that team work, Jordan couldn't escape the first round.

MJ was one of the best playmakers ever and a better defender than Pippen too. Pippen could guard larger forwards like Barkley better or Magic who was forward sized that's about it

Pippen would be Philly Iguodala if it wasn't for MJ. When Pippen was the #1 option he was getting embarrassed on both ends of the floor by Ewing in the 2nd round, getting benched for the final play for Toni Kukoc when they would've been down 3-0 if it went to Pippen, and wasn't even the Bulls best player in that series with Horace Grant badly outproducing him and playing better D

And MJ was MVP, 4th in DPOY and 1st team all defense in 98 when Pippen missed half the season. Bulls were a top 3 defense despite Pippen missing half the season. Scottie was also unreliable in the playoffs offensively their whole run but specially late. MJ basically won in 98 with Toni Kukoc being his 2nd option on offense with how inconsistent and injury riddled Scottie was that season he'll he even closed playoff games with Scottie out

MJ played with the absolute worst bums pre-Scottie going up against all-time great teams that's why he wasn't getting out of the 1st round. MJ won 50 with rookie Scottie/Grant when they weren't even starter level players and made it to the ECF against an all-time team with a sophomore Scottie, while leading his team in every category from points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks. Scottie with a greater role in the triangle expanded his passing game but MJ could've easily had primary vall handling decision making duties and did numerous times with Scottie out, like Kobe did in the same system. Scottie was ass in the halfcourt tho and MJ is one of the GOAT offball players too unlike Lebron so he doesn't need the ball in his hands and milk the possession for the majority of the time on ball to be effective. That's also a big reason MJ led so many dominant teams in comparison despite Lebron playing with some of the most talent of any star ever

And as far as the pre Scottie/Grant Bulls ppl who bring up the 1st round thing, they can't even name a rotation player on the pre-Scottie/Grant Bulls outside of Oakley and Paxson, without searching basketball reference

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

Well.. Michael is literally the best athlete without question here so.. MJ


Ali is number 2 athletically do to.. well.. you know..

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

No, Jordan scored, that's all he was great at. He didn't even have a good long range game. Pippen made that team work, Jordan couldn't escape the first round.

Brady had BeliGOAT and Vinitiari and stellar defenses. He wasn't some offensive juggernaut like the NFL wants you to believe. He was a very good QB. He had one great season in year 5 and didn't really turn into a top passer in the league until 2007. Even when he was offensively his best he lost super bowls. He always was carried by elite special teams and defense. It's a team game. Brady's best super bowl performance was against the Falcons and I still think Dont'a Hightower should have won MVP.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

No, Jordan scored, that's all he was great at. He didn't even have a good long range game. Pippen made that team work, Jordan couldn't escape the first round.

Brady had BeliGOAT and Vinitiari and stellar defenses. He wasn't some offensive juggernaut like the NFL wants you to believe. He was a very good QB. He had one great season in year 5 and didn't really turn into a top passer in the league until 2007. Even when he was offensively his best he lost super bowls. He always was carried by elite special teams and defense. It's a team game. Brady's best super bowl performance was against the Falcons and I still think Dont'a Hightower should have won MVP.

Relegating Jordan to being just a scorer is a stupid claim that's already been BTFO ITT. Tom literally just did it again with a team of misfit toys.

You know that Gretzky was passing to and receiving passes from an ATG better than anyone Jordan or Brady ever played with, right? Messier is #3 in career points. Gretzky lost in the playoffs as well. In a 20 year career he got 4 cups.

Once again, I'm not denying that Gretzky wins this poll. That's an easy decision. Everything you're saying about him applies to the other two as well, though.

 

[Bamboozled]

Relegating Jordan to being just a scorer is a stupid claim that's what been BTFO ITT. Tom literally just did it again with a team of misfit toys.

You know that Gretzky was passing to and receiving passes from an ATG better than anyone Jordan or Brady ever played with, right? Messier is #3 in career points. Gretzky lost in the playoffs as well. In a 20 year career he got 4 cups.

Once again, I'm not denying that Gretzky wins this poll. That's an easy decision. Everything you're saying about him applies to the other two as well, though.

you don't know shit about football

"misfit toys" is 3 #1 HoF level receivers lmao just stop

Jordan being a scorer is what he was. Period.

Hockey, football, and basketball are all very different sports. 1 player has more impact in basketball than in football or hockey.