My experience about the complementary of Zercher Squat and Back Squat

[Deleted member 512089]

So I have had a problem with my back squatting form for some time now. No matter what pre workout mobility routine I did I ALWAYS ended up with my torso falling forward at some point. Which is very bad for your back obviously.

I then discovered Zercher Squat and fell in love with it. I had tried front squats before but wether it was the olympic grip or the "on the deltoids" one it felt unnatural and uncomfortable.

With Zercher Squat tho I was instantly able to squat with full depth with perfect form and I loved it. Did only that for month. Just wrapped a towel around the bar for my elbows and let's go. Hell I even shared my training program here and it showed Zerchers.

So today I did my Zerchers but I wanted to go a lil heavier (which is still pretty light cause I'm pathetically weak), and my elbows hurt. I had finished all of my sets wasn't satisfied with the elbow discomfort so i said to myself "hey let's try some back squat again".

And to my surprise I was able to squat to full depth with very good form. Not perfect mind you, but I filmed myself and it's nothing like before, the bar follows an almost straight trajectory. While before I fell forward noticeably.

Was very happy to back squat again. And my conclusion is the following:

Zercher Squat being a movement that allows to attain full depth more naturally and easily, it stretched the right muscles to enable me to back squat properly and safely. Therefore Zercher Squat is the perfect mobility routine for me before back squatting.

That's all friends just wanted to share it with you! Hope it will be of some use, good training to all!

 

[Jkillah]

Isn't Zercher squat limited by arm strength? I couldn't imagine going heavy.

 

[vision1]

Isn't Zercher squat limited by arm strength? I couldn't imagine going heavy.

Maybe arm pain tolerance, doesn't require much arm strength.

 

[Jkillah]

Maybe arm pain tolerance, doesn't require much arm strength.

Don't you hold it in the crook of your elbow? I thought you would have to fight to not have the weight flatten your arm straight and slide off

 

[vision1]

Don't you hold it in the crook of your elbow? I thought you would have to fight to not have the weight flatten your arm straight and slide off

The lever is so short, it takes little force to keep your elbows bent.

 

[Deleted member 512089]

Isn't Zercher squat limited by arm strength? I couldn't imagine going heavy.

Like @vision1 said it's more arm pain than arm strength. Your arm work very little compared to what you could think from seeing it, the weight just "sits" here. Your core and lower back are on fire tho to help you maintain an upright posture despite the counterweight. That's honestly one of the rare exercises that gives me abs soreness sometimes.

Just for that alone it's a movement worth considering in any program IMO.

And for me personnally it's a staple now because it allows me to perform back squats without any discomfort and with proper form.

I remember reading an article of pavel tsatsouline saying that zercher was the best "bang for your bucks" squat variation of all. Will try to find it

 

[Deleted member 512089]

@Jkillah here's the article :

https://www.strongfirst.com/the-best-squat/

 

[Grenz]

Isn't Zercher squat limited by arm strength? I couldn't imagine going heavy.

Not really, although Zercher's definitely stimulate your biceps. The more limiting factor is really upper back strength: unless you engage your upper back, you're obviously going to keel over. That really comes into play once you're going for higher reps. IMO, 20 reps of Zerchers is a lot harder than 20 reps of back squats (even adjusting for lower weight, so let's say 80% of your backsquat), reason being that you need to engage your upper back muscles basically the entire time during Zerchers. On backsquats, you need to stay tight, but you don't need to engage your muscles to the same degree in the locked out position. Big fan of Zerchers myself, especially for home workouts if you don't have a rack.

 

[Grenz]

Like @vision1 said it's more arm pain than arm strength. Your arm work very little compared to what you could think from seeing it, the weight just "sits" here. Your core and lower back are on fire tho to help you maintain an upright posture despite the counterweight. That's honestly one of the rare exercises that gives me abs soreness sometimes.

Just for that alone it's a movement worth considering in any program IMO.

And for me personnally it's a staple now because it allows me to perform back squats without any discomfort and with proper form.

I remember reading an article of pavel tsatsouline saying that zercher was the best "bang for your bucks" squat variation of all. Will try to find it

Louie Simmons I think has also called Zerchers the best squat to learn how to squat properly, Dan John has said the same thing (although he still prefers Goblet squats, but they're impossible to load as much as Zerchers), Christian Thibaudeau over at T Nation has preached Zerchers for years now, Phil Daru prefers the Zercher for the fighters he trains, etc.

 

[Deleted member 512089]

Louie Simmons I think has also called Zerchers the best squat to learn how to squat properly, Dan John has said the same thing (although he still prefers Goblet squats, but they're impossible to load as much as Zerchers), Christian Thibaudeau over at T Nation has preached Zerchers for years now, Phil Daru prefers the Zercher for the fighters he trains, etc.

I saw Christian thibaudeau and Phil Darin's videos about it. I discovered the exercise with thibaudeau article on t nation tbh. And then a wrestling coach recommanded it to me also.

Didn't know louie simmons said it teaches you how to squat properly, makes it pretty awesome because in my case it's exactly what it did and I wasn't even aiming for it.

 

[deadshot138]

Louie Simmons I think has also called Zerchers the best squat to learn how to squat properly, Dan John has said the same thing (although he still prefers Goblet squats, but they're impossible to load as much as Zerchers), Christian Thibaudeau over at T Nation has preached Zerchers for years now, Phil Daru prefers the Zercher for the fighters he trains, etc.

Should be noted Westside guys largely use a front squat harness for zercher squats. Theres a set of pins on the harness that holds barbell about where they are for zerchers but since you aren't limited by how much pain your arms can take, you can go heavier.

 

[Kenjamito]

I’m here after seeing Jon Jones’ video on Instagram of him zercher squatting. I was wondering why the hell he was doing that and I’m glad I could come here for some explanation.

 

[Shadiata]

Again, cannot go as heavy with them but squatting while holding a heavy med ball/sandbag (like 100-150lbs) will do the trick as well.

Never tried Zerchers...but goblet and sandbag for sure. Sounds like you've gotten a solution to your issues! Congrats!

 

[Rand M Arthur]

Don't you hold it in the crook of your elbow? I thought you would have to fight to not have the weight flatten your arm straight and slide off

That is more a function of keeping the bar close and body upright, which is trap and erector strength.

 

[Volador]

So I have had a problem with my back squatting form for some time now. No matter what pre workout mobility routine I did I ALWAYS ended up with my torso falling forward at some point. Which is very bad for your back obviously.

I then discovered Zercher Squat and fell in love with it. I had tried front squats before but wether it was the olympic grip or the "on the deltoids" one it felt unnatural and uncomfortable.

With Zercher Squat tho I was instantly able to squat with full depth with perfect form and I loved it. Did only that for month. Just wrapped a towel around the bar for my elbows and let's go. Hell I even shared my training program here and it showed Zerchers.

So today I did my Zerchers but I wanted to go a lil heavier (which is still pretty light cause I'm pathetically weak), and my elbows hurt. I had finished all of my sets wasn't satisfied with the elbow discomfort so i said to myself "hey let's try some back squat again".

And to my surprise I was able to squat to full depth with very good form. Not perfect mind you, but I filmed myself and it's nothing like before, the bar follows an almost straight trajectory. While before I fell forward noticeably.

Was very happy to back squat again. And my conclusion is the following:

Zercher Squat being a movement that allows to attain full depth more naturally and easily, it stretched the right muscles to enable me to back squat properly and safely. Therefore Zercher Squat is the perfect mobility routine for me before back squatting.

That's all friends just wanted to share it with you! Hope it will be of some use, good training to all!

It's cool that you had that experience with zerchers. Never tried them, maybe I will some day. I can see how they could help one learn to keep a more vertical torso. Just wanted to point out that this:

"I ALWAYS ended up with my torso falling forward at some point. Which is very bad for your back obviously."

Is not necessarily an obvious statement. Your torso falling forward somewhat isn't inherently bad for your back. If it was, exercises like RDL's, good mornings, stiff leg deadlifts, etc, would be impossible to do safely, and we know that isn't true. As long as you load the exercise gradually in terms of volume and intensity, your body will adapt over time. Too much of a good morning squat can be a technical problem that doesn't allow you to use your best leverages or keep the bar over mid foot, which might cause you to eventually miss a rep or become a limiting factor. In that sense it might be something to work on if it's too excessive, but it's not really true that it's "bad" for your back.

 

[Monk Dewilly DeHonk]

Zerchers are a brilliant exercise, regarding not going heavy ( done 500lbs off pins just above thighs parallel )great carryover to deadlifts imo. I like all variations, off pins, taken off j hooks and full squat down and up ( 440 ), wide stance, narrow stance, all good. I did them when i had a shoulder injury and couldn't back squat because of shoulder pain. Its now my favourite way to squat, it's painful at first but after about a month it eases off ( better bare armed). Plus it gets you Kudos in a gym lol

 

[spdrew2143]

Zerchers are a brilliant exercise, regarding not going heavy ( done 500lbs off pins just above thighs parallel )great carryover to deadlifts imo. I like all variations, off pins, taken off j hooks and full squat down and up ( 440 ), wide stance, narrow stance, all good. I did them when i had a shoulder injury and couldn't back squat because of shoulder pain. Its now my favourite way to squat, it's painful at first but after about a month it eases off ( better bare armed). Plus it gets you Kudos in a gym lol

They're ok. From my experience they havent carried over to my deadlift much. There are other squat variations that are just as good. For some reason zerchers always been wildly popular in the s&c.

 

[JimRussel]

For some reason zerchers always been wildly popular in the s&c.

People who aren't very strong and can't find success with real squatting seem to turn to them eventually.

If you can't get the work you need with a barbell through low bar squats, high bar squats, front squats, good mornings, and all the variations of those things, I don't know what to tell you.

Maybe useful for strongman when it comes to picking up stones and heavy shit up off the ground. Even then, I think their application is limited.

 

[ASUThermo]

People who aren't very strong and can't find success with real squatting seem to turn to them eventually.

If you can't get the work you need with a barbell through low bar squats, high bar squats, front squats, good mornings, and all the variations of those things, I don't know what to tell you.

Last night had a conversation with some lifters about zerchers and other odd variations of more common lifts and came to a similar conclusion. Usually a guy that wants to be the "strongest or best in the room" at something, so they will gravitate to something that nobody else is doing or training. Nee xfitters taking wods to inappropriate places in commercial gyms is a similar thing, also the striking noobs shadow boxing in the squat rack.

 

[vision1]

I tend to agree with the above too. Might have some good carryover for wrestling/strongman but for the most part, people who do those lifts on these forums aren't competing in either of those sports.

I do enjoy zercher position for reverse lunges. Allows for better balance and load is not limited by pain.