My post-Covid grappling dilemma

SAMURAI SPIRIT

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So I got Covid at age 45. It felt like a flu but more severe. After it was over, I felt very weak. This was at the start of the lockdown so all gyms were shut down anyways. I changed jobs, moved to a new state and thought that my BJJ days are over. I started working out in my garage and now, strength wise, I am back to my 400 lbs squats and all the other lifts are not far from where they used to be.

I am thinking about going back on the mat but I can sense that my motivation for training has changed. I am no longer looking to compete in tournaments. I am interested in self-defense and real world application. I also see myself teaching sometime in the future. As I move from mid-40s to late 40s, I have to think about retirement. At this stage in life BJJ is more about building friendships, growing in something that I know will come in handy if it ever comes to that and teaching becomes a reason to stay on the mat.

I have two schools near me. One is a Gracie University affiliate. They are a small operation with a small number of grapplers. The assistant instructor is a blue belt just like I am and the head instructor is a purple. One thing I respect about Gracie University schools is that they remain true to real fighting. You will see a lot of MMA built into their BJJ as students will evade punches and strikes and they always assume a striking opponent. Now open guards, no guard pulling. It is very basic with a lot of emphasis on high profile moves.

I like this because in my BJJ training a lot of times, coaches will show you stuff that had no real world application. Yet you had to drill it because that was technique of the day. Sometimes it would be weeks after weeks of technique drills that never sank into me because I never believed in them. With Gracie University, they have thrown out all that and designed a curriculum that I feel I would have chosen for myself if I had become a black belt and had the freedom to specialize in a few selected techniques. This is BJJ the way I would want to have it delivered for me. The problem is that this school has a lot of lower belts and not enough of high end grapplers.

If I go a little farther out, there is another BJJ gym based on a totally opposite philosophy. The coach prides in the competition team and they have a few black belts under one roof. Here you will see a lot of younger, athletic guys and girls trying flying arm bars and berimbolos and a lot of nonsense that I would never spend my precious time with. The good thing is that they have an MMA team so practicalities of combat can be addressed separately.

I am torn between which of the two places I belong? If I sign up for one then I would like to commit myself for it for years. I am told that if my goal is to teach eventually, then Gracie University is the place to stay away from. No one wants to affiliate with them and they are a problem child within BJJ world. They made some bad marketing decisions like online belts etc and that reputation has stuck with them. I wonder if a black belt from this lineage would have the same respect as anyone else? I wonder if long term affiliation with them would cause a disconnect from the rest of the grappling world? While I appreciate their emphasis on real world application of BJJ, I sense a certain negative vibe from others about them. Am I being paranoid?
 
I am told that if my goal is to teach eventually, then Gracie University is the place to stay away from

This is true, IMO, but also because you aren't going to get the training under a purple belt that you need to become a worthwhile instructor yourself.

I think your take on the relative merits of "real" vs "competition" schools is completely backwards for reasons that get litigated on these forums about once a week.
 
So I got Covid at age 45. It felt like a flu but more severe. After it was over, I felt very weak. This was at the start of the lockdown so all gyms were shut down anyways. I changed jobs, moved to a new state and thought that my BJJ days are over. I started working out in my garage and now, strength wise, I am back to my 400 lbs squats and all the other lifts are not far from where they used to be.

I am thinking about going back on the mat but I can sense that my motivation for training has changed. I am no longer looking to compete in tournaments. I am interested in self-defense and real world application. I also see myself teaching sometime in the future. As I move from mid-40s to late 40s, I have to think about retirement. At this stage in life BJJ is more about building friendships, growing in something that I know will come in handy if it ever comes to that and teaching becomes a reason to stay on the mat.

I have two schools near me. One is a Gracie University affiliate. They are a small operation with a small number of grapplers. The assistant instructor is a blue belt just like I am and the head instructor is a purple. One thing I respect about Gracie University schools is that they remain true to real fighting. You will see a lot of MMA built into their BJJ as students will evade punches and strikes and they always assume a striking opponent. Now open guards, no guard pulling. It is very basic with a lot of emphasis on high profile moves.

I like this because in my BJJ training a lot of times, coaches will show you stuff that had no real world application. Yet you had to drill it because that was technique of the day. Sometimes it would be weeks after weeks of technique drills that never sank into me because I never believed in them. With Gracie University, they have thrown out all that and designed a curriculum that I feel I would have chosen for myself if I had become a black belt and had the freedom to specialize in a few selected techniques. This is BJJ the way I would want to have it delivered for me. The problem is that this school has a lot of lower belts and not enough of high end grapplers.

If I go a little farther out, there is another BJJ gym based on a totally opposite philosophy. The coach prides in the competition team and they have a few black belts under one roof. Here you will see a lot of younger, athletic guys and girls trying flying arm bars and berimbolos and a lot of nonsense that I would never spend my precious time with. The good thing is that they have an MMA team so practicalities of combat can be addressed separately.

I am torn between which of the two places I belong? If I sign up for one then I would like to commit myself for it for years. I am told that if my goal is to teach eventually, then Gracie University is the place to stay away from. No one wants to affiliate with them and they are a problem child within BJJ world. They made some bad marketing decisions like online belts etc and that reputation has stuck with them. I wonder if a black belt from this lineage would have the same respect as anyone else? I wonder if long term affiliation with them would cause a disconnect from the rest of the grappling world? While I appreciate their emphasis on real world application of BJJ, I sense a certain negative vibe from others about them. Am I being paranoid?
If you want to teach BJJ shouldnt you be familiar with the stuff used in competitions?
Also teaching "real" fighting without ever being in a real mma fight with a real opponent seems like bullshit to me.
 
I love my purple belt coach to bits, but I still think the choice between a gym with black belts and a gym with only a few colour belts is a no brainer. Join the big gym, learn the game you want to learn.
 
Go to where the Blackbelts are, when it comes to self defence or an actual fight most of what you would need to know is pretty basic. And just because it’s a competition based gym, doesn’t mean you have to build your game that way
 
Ive trained under a purple belt, and ive trained under black belts.

100% the black belts stuff was on another level to the PB, obviously.

I have alot of time for the purple belt as i started training with him, and learned from him too.
 
So I got Covid at age 45. It felt like a flu but more severe. After it was over, I felt very weak. This was at the start of the lockdown so all gyms were shut down anyways. I changed jobs, moved to a new state and thought that my BJJ days are over. I started working out in my garage and now, strength wise, I am back to my 400 lbs squats and all the other lifts are not far from where they used to be.

I am thinking about going back on the mat but I can sense that my motivation for training has changed. I am no longer looking to compete in tournaments. I am interested in self-defense and real world application. I also see myself teaching sometime in the future. As I move from mid-40s to late 40s, I have to think about retirement. At this stage in life BJJ is more about building friendships, growing in something that I know will come in handy if it ever comes to that and teaching becomes a reason to stay on the mat.

I have two schools near me. One is a Gracie University affiliate. They are a small operation with a small number of grapplers. The assistant instructor is a blue belt just like I am and the head instructor is a purple. One thing I respect about Gracie University schools is that they remain true to real fighting. You will see a lot of MMA built into their BJJ as students will evade punches and strikes and they always assume a striking opponent. Now open guards, no guard pulling. It is very basic with a lot of emphasis on high profile moves.

I like this because in my BJJ training a lot of times, coaches will show you stuff that had no real world application. Yet you had to drill it because that was technique of the day. Sometimes it would be weeks after weeks of technique drills that never sank into me because I never believed in them. With Gracie University, they have thrown out all that and designed a curriculum that I feel I would have chosen for myself if I had become a black belt and had the freedom to specialize in a few selected techniques. This is BJJ the way I would want to have it delivered for me. The problem is that this school has a lot of lower belts and not enough of high end grapplers.

If I go a little farther out, there is another BJJ gym based on a totally opposite philosophy. The coach prides in the competition team and they have a few black belts under one roof. Here you will see a lot of younger, athletic guys and girls trying flying arm bars and berimbolos and a lot of nonsense that I would never spend my precious time with. The good thing is that they have an MMA team so practicalities of combat can be addressed separately.

I am torn between which of the two places I belong? If I sign up for one then I would like to commit myself for it for years. I am told that if my goal is to teach eventually, then Gracie University is the place to stay away from. No one wants to affiliate with them and they are a problem child within BJJ world. They made some bad marketing decisions like online belts etc and that reputation has stuck with them. I wonder if a black belt from this lineage would have the same respect as anyone else? I wonder if long term affiliation with them would cause a disconnect from the rest of the grappling world? While I appreciate their emphasis on real world application of BJJ, I sense a certain negative vibe from others about them. Am I being paranoid?

Im kind of like you in many ways but I started liking the self defense stuff after many injuries and not wanting to compete anymore. All of a sudden my game felt very inadequate for the street. I’m too old and injured now and don’t even train anymore after Covid. Maybe I’ll go back later or just start a club and just drill and roll with guys.

I think it’s important to visit both places and see which one you like best and which one fits best with your current life style. You could even go to the sport place and open a Gracie garage to supplement your training because the sport place sounds kind of far. So you can do 2 days at the sport place and 2 days at your own Gracie garage and get the best of both worlds
 
Ive trained under a purple belt, and ive trained under black belts.

100% the black belts stuff was on another level to the PB, obviously.

I have alot of time for the purple belt as i started training with him, and learned from him too.
I don’t think all black belts are created equal. Some are hobbyist and just put in the time and don’t necessarily have the skill or the knowledge. Some have the knowledge but just isn’t a good competitor. Some are really gifted and do well in competition but suck at teaching.

Some purple belts are really good teachers. I think at higher belts, good training partners are more important than instruction because at purple and above, it’s kind of up to you to improve outside of just showing up to class.

the Gracie affiliate may actually have a really bad purple and just got the belt because he’s an affiliate but the Gracie university lessons are standardize and they’re pretty good. It’s definitely going to be way less intense compared to a competition school. But if your options are that limited, then you pick the best one that fits your situation
 
If the purple belt coaching is that damn good.... then go to wherever his black belt head coach teaches.
 
Im kind of like you in many ways but I started liking the self defense stuff after many injuries and not wanting to compete anymore. All of a sudden my game felt very inadequate for the street. I’m too old and injured now and don’t even train anymore after Covid. Maybe I’ll go back later or just start a club and just drill and roll with guys.

I am curious to know what you mean by that? Do you mean your game felt inadequate for the street due to you being injured? Or because of the emphasis on tournaments?

I like your Gracie Garage idea. I am not sure if they would allow a Gracie Garage right next to a Gracie affiliated school but I will look into that. Despite of all the criticisms, I respect Gracie family.
 
I am curious to know what you mean by that? Do you mean your game felt inadequate for the street due to you being injured? Or because of the emphasis on tournaments?

I like your Gracie Garage idea. I am not sure if they would allow a Gracie Garage right next to a Gracie affiliated school but I will look into that. Despite of all the criticisms, I respect Gracie family.
Well, I had hopes of doing mma way back in the day. I came from a striking background but I wasn’t really that good but I wanted to make my traditional martial arts work. Then I started taking some boxing and Muay Thai amd kind of implemented that info my striking and truthfully my style became more Sandra because I really like the boxing hands amd the Muay Thai low kicks but I like the Kung fu throws.

anyway, I took bjj because I wanted to defend myself on the ground but I kind of fell in love with it and got the idea I could be a world champion because back then, it was easier. It was still hard but when you do well in the white belt division, you think you’re a bad ass. My game was all gi based and didn’t think about mma or strike defense at all. Once I stopped caring about competing and started examining my game, it really was based more on gi grips and my athleticism that self defense and more body alignment and striking awareness and awareness of my surrounding.

I really like Gracie university, she and Henry Atkins because it’s simple but it’s advanced fundamental bjj and it’s geared for self defense. Like my closed guard game used to be attack the collar and threaten the choke and then go for shoulder guard, sweep or whatever my partner gives me. Now I like what Chris hauter does and he kind of pins the partners hand as he goes for the collar to prevent the punch from one side and he can control the sleeve or wrist with the other. It’s just little adjustments. It’s not hard. I think if ppl roll with strikes like one a week they can adapt their game for the streets
 
My take on the self defense is to train at the competitive school. Competitive schools tend to train harder and with more aggression. Sure inversions are not something you want to do in the street. But that is an easy fix as long as you're not a naïve.

The self defense schools I have been too are all a bunch of old non athletic guys that don't have the cardio to train hard. So even if the technique is more suited to those scenarios, the training isn't. If you want to be prepared for the worst, you need to train hard.

Always go where the killers are. If you want to focus more on something than build your game that way.

It doesn't matter what the instructor shows after a certain point in your training. Every individual has to build their own game that suits their goals and physical strengths and weaknesses. But you always want to have the best training partners possible they are what makes the difference at times between what makes you better or not.
 
My take on the self defense is to train at the competitive school. Competitive schools tend to train harder and with more aggression. Sure inversions are not something you want to do in the street. But that is an easy fix as long as you're not a naïve.

The self defense schools I have been too are all a bunch of old non athletic guys that don't have the cardio to train hard. So even if the technique is more suited to those scenarios, the training isn't. If you want to be prepared for the worst, you need to train hard.

Always go where the killers are. If you want to focus more on something than build your game that way.

It doesn't matter what the instructor shows after a certain point in your training. Every individual has to build their own game that suits their goals and physical strengths and weaknesses. But you always want to have the best training partners possible they are what makes the difference at times between what makes you better or not.

I see some sense in that. Trust me I do. But BJJ as it is evolving is worse than Taekwondo. It is so disconnected from actual fight that it is not even funny. I roll with some high level purple belts who pull guard. If it was real fight, I'd punch the living daylights out of them. But I am spending hours trying to pass a guard (not just the closed guard but the spider guard or the baboon guard) and what not. Yet they believe they are "seasoned killers" because Joe Rogan used the term. Those who really understand what they lack, often take the MMA class in which they realize that only 10% of what they learn in BJJ is what would work in a fight. What I liked about the Gracie Academy approach was that they only stick to that. But yet they do lack the intensity since people who come to train there are not looking to push themselves as much as they medal chasers.
 
My take on the self defense is to train at the competitive school. Competitive schools tend to train harder and with more aggression. Sure inversions are not something you want to do in the street. But that is an easy fix as long as you're not a naïve.

The self defense schools I have been too are all a bunch of old non athletic guys that don't have the cardio to train hard. So even if the technique is more suited to those scenarios, the training isn't. If you want to be prepared for the worst, you need to train hard.

Always go where the killers are. If you want to focus more on something than build your game that way.

It doesn't matter what the instructor shows after a certain point in your training. Every individual has to build their own game that suits their goals and physical strengths and weaknesses. But you always want to have the best training partners possible they are what makes the difference at times between what makes you better or not.

I agree if you’re a young guy. I’ve seen competition schools that have an unofficial mma class where they train with strikes and don’t really provide instruction and probably adjust their game according. Competition schools does teach you grit and you learn a lot from getting smashed.

However, bjj does have a high injury rate and young guys eventually become old guys. And old guys become less ambitious and view this more as a hobby and just don’t want to get hurt. That’s why I think old guy bjj classes are a great idea and that’s why I think self defense bjj places does so well. I also think not all self defense places are created equal. Like training at rickson’s back in the day or at krons isn’t a walk in the park.

I don’t think training at the toughest school for a middle age man is necessarily the best idea. Hell, more schools now have adjusted how hard they train because competitors train so often that if all they do is train hard, their body will break down. Just look at dds. They train hard but they also do a lot of drilling with various resistance.

I have known people that started a club amd taught people so they can have training partners so he can improve and would go back to his home academy a couple of times a year to train and learn new stuff.
 
I see some sense in that. Trust me I do. But BJJ as it is evolving is worse than Taekwondo. It is so disconnected from actual fight that it is not even funny. I roll with some high level purple belts who pull guard. If it was real fight, I'd punch the living daylights out of them. But I am spending hours trying to pass a guard (not just the closed guard but the spider guard or the baboon guard) and what not. Yet they believe they are "seasoned killers" because Joe Rogan used the term. Those who really understand what they lack, often take the MMA class in which they realize that only 10% of what they learn in BJJ is what would work in a fight. What I liked about the Gracie Academy approach was that they only stick to that. But yet they do lack the intensity since people who come to train there are not looking to push themselves as much as they medal chasers.
If you really think that those guard pullers in a fight are going to try and pull guard you're mistaken. I pull guard 90% of the time in training but I know full well that is not what I would do in self defense. I also know that I can take down 90% of people who don't train I can hold mount like no body's business and I would still smash people 1 on 1 self defense. Also smart enough to NOT get into a fight. The self defense argument is kind of silly. How often are you going to be cornered and force into a fight? It happens but not often. And when you get into that fight, I would trust people training at a higher intensity and pace than the 40 year old that trains self defence jiu-jitsu and barely breaks a sweat.

At the end of the day it's all speculation. But I'll take a medal chaser in a fight over a hobbyist who trains self defense every day.
 
I agree if you’re a young guy. I’ve seen competition schools that have an unofficial mma class where they train with strikes and don’t really provide instruction and probably adjust their game according. Competition schools does teach you grit and you learn a lot from getting smashed.

However, bjj does have a high injury rate and young guys eventually become old guys. And old guys become less ambitious and view this more as a hobby and just don’t want to get hurt. That’s why I think old guy bjj classes are a great idea and that’s why I think self defense bjj places does so well. I also think not all self defense places are created equal. Like training at rickson’s back in the day or at krons isn’t a walk in the park.

I don’t think training at the toughest school for a middle age man is necessarily the best idea. Hell, more schools now have adjusted how hard they train because competitors train so often that if all they do is train hard, their body will break down. Just look at dds. They train hard but they also do a lot of drilling with various resistance.

I have known people that started a club amd taught people so they can have training partners so he can improve and would go back to his home academy a couple of times a year to train and learn new stuff.
Injury is a legitimate concern for sure. But then the best self defense training for someone concerned about injury is how to avoid a fight. Unless someone breaks into your home there is very low chance (the risk is still there) that you get forced into a fight you can't just walk a way from. And if someone breaks into your home a gun should be your best option for self defense. Just my two cents. Then again I'm biased because I'm 32 and have a very modern style of jiu-jitsu that uses a lot of berimbolo matrix and kiss of the dragon.

I do however know that 90% of the jiu-jitsu I use in training is NOT what I would use in a real fight. This idea that competition jiu-jitsu practitioners don't know the difference is pretty silly.
 
If you really think that those guard pullers in a fight are going to try and pull guard you're mistaken. I pull guard 90% of the time in training but I know full well that is not what I would do in self defense. I also know that I can take down 90% of people who don't train I can hold mount like no body's business and I would still smash people 1 on 1 self defense. Also smart enough to NOT get into a fight. The self defense argument is kind of silly. How often are you going to be cornered and force into a fight? It happens but not often. And when you get into that fight, I would trust people training at a higher intensity and pace than the 40 year old that trains self defence jiu-jitsu and barely breaks a sweat.

At the end of the day it's all speculation. But I'll take a medal chaser in a fight over a hobbyist who trains self defense every day.

Injury is a legitimate concern for sure. But then the best self defense training for someone concerned about injury is how to avoid a fight. Unless someone breaks into your home there is very low chance (the risk is still there) that you get forced into a fight you can't just walk a way from. And if someone breaks into your home a gun should be your best option for self defense. Just my two cents. Then again I'm biased because I'm 32 and have a very modern style of jiu-jitsu that uses a lot of berimbolo matrix and kiss of the dragon.

I do however know that 90% of the jiu-jitsu I use in training is NOT what I would use in a real fight. This idea that competition jiu-jitsu practitioners don't know the difference is pretty silly.

Fully agree a competitor, even a guard-pulling sport BJJ guy who trains at high intensity will do better in a fight than a self-defense LARPer who doesn't. But I disagree if you think you're just going to turn off the "90% of the jiu-jitsu you use in training which is NOT what you would use in a real fight." Real fights are unexpected and chaotic and people fight how they train. If you train to pull guard and berimbolo, that's very likely what you'll do when it matters on the street.

But I think we both recognize training for street fights is secondary to most BJJers, and as you say, it's an unlikely scenario as long as you mind your own business and walk away if you can.
 
Injury is a legitimate concern for sure. But then the best self defense training for someone concerned about injury is how to avoid a fight. Unless someone breaks into your home there is very low chance (the risk is still there) that you get forced into a fight you can't just walk a way from. And if someone breaks into your home a gun should be your best option for self defense. Just my two cents. Then again I'm biased because I'm 32 and have a very modern style of jiu-jitsu that uses a lot of berimbolo matrix and kiss of the dragon.

I do however know that 90% of the jiu-jitsu I use in training is NOT what I would use in a real fight. This idea that competition jiu-jitsu practitioners don't know the difference is pretty silly.

I agree that training at a competition school get you ready for dealing with pressure but when you fight, you fight how you train, that’s why it’s important to get hard rolls in to get used to that intensity but also it’s important to go lighter so you can play around and work on your creativity and it’s also important to roll with strikes so you actually get used to getting hit.

Training at the gym is one thing but actually dealing with a high pressure situation is another. It’s about mental toughness. I’ve seen gym gods get destroyed at competition because they can’t deal with the stress of people watching them and the actual pressure of living up to their reputation. The same can be said of self defense situation. Rolling around is one thing but actually defending yourself is another. It gets more complicated if you have a wife and kid around because you have to worrry about their safety. That’s why I also think practicing de-escalation is important and even some reality based martial arts have something to offer like keeping your hands up in a non threatening manner but acting as a barrier to defend your face, etc.

I want to reiterate not all self defense places are wimps. It’s not all or nothing. You can have some places that just ok with some really good guys and most of them are just average to below average. I think even most successful schools are like this because it’s the average and below average guys that pay the bills. If you have a school with only bad asses, then the owner is going to have to work a job to support it.
 
Fully agree a competitor, even a guard-pulling sport BJJ guy who trains at high intensity will do better in a fight than a self-defense LARPer who doesn't. But I disagree if you think you're just going to turn off the "90% of the jiu-jitsu you use in training which is NOT what you would use in a real fight." Real fights are unexpected and chaotic and people fight how they train. If you train to pull guard and berimbolo, that's very likely what you'll do when it matters on the street.

But I think we both recognize training for street fights is secondary to most BJJers, and as you say, it's an unlikely scenario as long as you mind your own business and walk away if you can.

I agree with you but I also think some training is better than no training. I think even the crappy self defense bjj places are better than McDojo karate places. Training is better than just going to the bar or watching tv.

Like would you recommend an out of shape 45 y/o soccer mom to train at a competition school over a self defense school? Maybe but I think she would get injured less and would actually stick around the bad school and learn to defend against a rape choke from mount, learn punch defense from the guard and lose some weight. Where as the competition school would be more intense and would require her to do more cool down work she doesn’t have tone for like stretching and foam roller. Now that I think about it, even competition schools have programs tailored for hobbyist that are less intense and you have to get invited to the comp team. Now don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen old men turn into bad added but they train a lot and they’re more of the exception than the norm
 
Fully agree a competitor, even a guard-pulling sport BJJ guy who trains at high intensity will do better in a fight than a self-defense LARPer who doesn't. But I disagree if you think you're just going to turn off the "90% of the jiu-jitsu you use in training which is NOT what you would use in a real fight." Real fights are unexpected and chaotic and people fight how they train. If you train to pull guard and berimbolo, that's very likely what you'll do when it matters on the street.

But I think we both recognize training for street fights is secondary to most BJJers, and as you say, it's an unlikely scenario as long as you mind your own business and walk away if you can.
It is an interesting thought experiment though. I just hope to never be in a situation where I have to put it to the test, no matter how confident I am in my ability.
 
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