Social NFL assumes black athletes started off dumber, and must show greater cognitive decline than whites

But is that what they’re basing payouts on? Each individual wonderlic?

The lawsuit claims the payouts simply have different criteria for different races.
Well it is a cognitive ability test and white players, on average, do score significantly higher, so I assume it's at the very least, part of the criteria.

Of course the arguement to throw out the test was made because of its inherent racist nature...so the detractors said.
 
I found places where batteries using Heaton's norms are still sold. It's not my field so I don't know more than the article says about the breadth of use. I know you're not playing the gotcha game with the NFL. I agree that the outcome is racist, the thing I was trying to highlight was that the outcome can be racist without the NFL itself being racist. The NFL's lawyers can just trying to use a commonly used system to reduce their civil liability. Which every lawyer under the sun is supposed to do. And if people are genuinely upset about the racist outcome, they would direct their ire to the underlying norms because that's where the issue originates.

What would be unfortunate is for people to say "Look NFL is racist," but ignore that these norms are in use other places, extending their potential unfair impact.

Agree, it's the "symptom vs disease" discussion. I think what happens is that stuff like this may well still be in use but it's hidden well enough that the average person isn't going to know about it. Someone like me isn't poring over court cases, or trying to see what tricks corporations are using to be more profitable that might have racist outcomes (with or without racist intent). Hell, I wouldn't know where to look anyway. So it's important that when cases like this are made public, everyone is made to see what's happening.

And yeah I kinda feel bad that it happens to be the NFL here. I'm a huge football fan, I don't like seeing them pulling this crap.
 
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
 
Agree, it's the "symptom vs disease" discussion. I think what happens is that stuff like this may well still be in use but it's hidden well enough that the average person isn't going to know about it. Someone like me isn't poring over court cases, or trying to see what tricks corporations are using to be more profitable that might have racist outcomes (with or without racist intent). Hell, I wouldn't know where to look anyway. So it's important that when cases like this are made public, everyone is made to see what's happening.

And yeah I kinda feel bad that it happens to be the NFL here. I'm a huge football fan, I don't like seeing them pulling this crap.
I think it's a perfect example of how hidden these things can be. In what world would anyone not in this space be aware of these norms, let alone how often are used. That it takes an NFL settlement about concussions to make us aware of a set of standards that are used elsewhere is crazy.

It makes me wonder what other settlements where people suffered cognitive injury have seen their impacts affected by this. Factories where the chemicals affected workers? Environmental clean up companies where the workers weren't given adequate protection? The variety of places where lawyers just plugged in the standard set of norms without thinking and ultimately ended up reducing the settlements that victims were entitled to.
 
I think it's a perfect example of how hidden these things can be. In what world would anyone not in this space be aware of these norms, let alone how often are used. That it takes an NFL settlement about concussions to make us aware of a set of standards that are used elsewhere is crazy.

It makes me wonder what other settlements where people suffered cognitive injury have seen their impacts affected by this. Factories where the chemicals affected workers? Environmental clean up companies where the workers weren't given adequate protection? The variety of places where lawyers just plugged in the standard set of norms without thinking and ultimately ended up reducing the settlements that victims were entitled to.

I'd imagine it's widespread. You're the lawyer so you know better than I do what can be disclosed and what can't from these settlement cases (meaning are there people out there who'd dig up the info, and if so what would they have access to?) but yeah when systemic racism is talked about, stuff like this should be at the forefront imo. It's concrete, and it resonates.
 
The crux of the issue is that black people do have lower cognitive abilities in general. You can argue that it's caused by hereditary factors, understood here in the context of not only genetics but the person's entire environment including socioeconomic status at birth. It's possible that there are players who fall outside the norm (either in greater or lower intelligence), and an easy way to solve this would be to give all new players a neuropsychological assessment to establish their individual baseline instead of applying a group norm established on a large sample size. This is much cheaper than dealing with these lawsuits. This means each player will receive a payout appropriate to their actual level of cognitive decline. Players who are dumber than the norm will not receive false claims they would have otherwise received under the current standard, and players more intelligent than the norm will receive the compensation they're due and all is well.

What all would that type of assessment include? They're already given intelligence tests upon entry. Seems like a dude looking for a payout is gonna tank the exit exam. I wonder how detectable that type of fraud is.
 
Doesn’t sound that different than all the woke changes to testing and academic standards. This is the current progressive viewpoint.
No difference to what is happening to woke media and entertainment. I know why they are pushing so called diversity but the global standards doesn't agree with the woke side.
 
But Trump was the president, so he wasn't just somebody

Irrelevant to this story.

He is relevant because we are talking about how the NFL viewed BLM while he was in office.

That makes zero sense.

You realize that people often refer to an era by invoking the name of the person who was president at the time.

Sure but that's not what you were doing.

I have hit a nerve with you , because just saying "Trump" has put you in a bad mood.

That's still not gonna work, bud.
 
But is that what they’re basing payouts on? Each individual wonderlic?

The lawsuit claims the payouts simply have different criteria for different races.

Apparently there are averages based on position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_test#Average_score_in_the_NFL_by_position
The Wonderlic test is used in the NFL Scouting Combine. Paul Brown introduced the test to the league in the late 1960s.[35] According to Paul Zimmerman's The New Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football, the average score of an NFL player according to position is the following:[36]

https://www.quora.com/The-majority-...ite-black-Is-there-a-rational-reason-for-this
Despite a nearly 50-50 split along the offensive line, at center more than 81 percent of the players are white. Conversely, cornerback is the blackest position on the field: 99.4 percent of players are African-American. On defense overall, roughly 80 percent of the players are black. Switching back to offense, among running backs, the numbers are also heavily tilted toward blacks.

According to the annual racial and gender report card published by TIDES, the NFL is almost 70 percent black, and only 12.5 percent of running backs are white in the most recent year for statistics, 2014, while the inverse was true for special teams positions of kicker and punter, where 97.8 percent of players were white. The NFL’s racial divide

Racism, or just touching on unpleasant statistical facts? These days people frequently get the two confused.
 
Apparently there are averages based on position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_test#Average_score_in_the_NFL_by_position
The Wonderlic test is used in the NFL Scouting Combine. Paul Brown introduced the test to the league in the late 1960s.[35] According to Paul Zimmerman's The New Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football, the average score of an NFL player according to position is the following:[36]

https://www.quora.com/The-majority-...ite-black-Is-there-a-rational-reason-for-this


Racism, or just touching on unpleasant statistical facts? These days people frequently get the two confused.

Yes. But the nfl isn’t using their rookie wonderlic scores as baseline for CTE payouts. That has nothing to do with this.

They’re using a white baseline and a black baseline, and since the black baseline is lower, black athletes have to show they’re even more down mental capacities to get a potential payout
 
Irrelevant to this story.



That makes zero sense.



Sure but that's not what you were doing.



That's still not gonna work, bud.
So in a thread that claims the NFL leadership is not woke despite outward appearances, I can't bring up recent history of them not being woke??
 
If it is based on test results achieved before signing on then it makes sense.

Injecting race into it is obviously a money grab attempt ad I'm sure that these cases and related evidence are handled on an individual basis.
 
They’re literally just saying that black players have less cognitive abilities on average. Not like they’re looking at each dudes old scores
I was under the impression the players are graded on some sort of test. That data is entered into a database that uses an algorithm that averages their scores and makes those assumptions. I could be wrong but doesn’t every rookie do a cognitive test? I was just reading an article on the Bears 1st round pick Justin Fields and how he scored the highest possible score on the cognitive test for QBs.

*Edit*

Google search revealed a player can NOT be drafted unless they take the Wonderlic Test.

https://www.jobtestprep.com/nfl-won...e Wonderlic,in order to be drafted to the NFL.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_test
 
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So in a thread that claims the NFL leadership is not woke despite outward appearances, I can't bring up recent history of them not being woke??

I'm not sure what your issue is. Pretty sure either side can see how racist this policy is. I do, and I am 1000% against it. For all the race baiting you do, how could you not appreciate having an issue where we both agree this is terrible? That's not good enough so you inject Trump into it using the weakest logic possible? Fuck Kaepernick and your TDS both. Talk about the issue at hand.
 
I was under the impression the players are graded on some sort of test. That data is entered into a database that uses an algorithm that averages their scores and makes those assumptions. I could be wrong but doesn’t every rookie do a cognitive test? I was just reading an article on the Bears 1st round pick Justin Fields and how he scored the highest possible score on the cognitive test for QBs.
They use that test for drafting purposes given to the different teams. Like their 40 yard dash and vertical jump scores

I haven't seen anything saying it's looked at for their CTE payouts. NFL keeps the Wonderlic scores quiet for athletes so as to not risk calling any of them dumb, of course there's leaks though.

And wonderlic is a pretty piss poor way to judge intelligence. It's a 12 minute test of how quick can you see patterns, because if you actually did all the math problems like they were math problems, you wouldn't finish it in time


Here's a sample question
A clock lost 2 minutes and 36 seconds in 78 days. How many seconds did it lose per day?

There are 50 questions given in 12 minutes. You have 14.4 seconds to answer each question. You can't multiple, add, and divide that out formally in time.

You can, however, recognize 120 + 36 = 156, and without doing long division on 78/156, it's around 2 if not exactly 2 and that's the closest answer in the multiple choice so you circle that one and go on to the next one.

But I haven't seen anything about it being used for CTE assessment.
 
Protest? Or no?

I mean, why wouldn't there be? You have actual systematic racism here. Even if it was primarily formed as a money saving policy, it still discriminates against a certain race of people and that should not exist. Is the ACLU able to do anything here?
 
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