Official Judo Thread

[BJ@LW&WW]

so if this

had he landed on his back, ippon or no? because there was some hopping.

and also on the previous point, he landed completely face down but with a ton of impact. i think most children would call that an ippon

 

[QingTian]

^ The actual finishing throw did not have a hopping finish.

Anyway the reason I would not give hopping ippon is because there is lack of total control. It's not a precision strike that would really end a fight. Or if it was hard enough, it's because they threw themselves into the rollover that could be a bad idea in a real fight too.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

i agree its typically not 'total control' but that's also an extremely high barrometer. a lot of extremely powerful throws are not 'total control' either

 

[QingTian]

It might not be good for sport but I think it's better to practice that way. Making the rules that way would make Judo a better martial art.

 

[RJ Green]

I will argue the 'For TV' bullshit til I'm red in the face with anybody.

Judo is a highlight sport. It's not a sit-and-watch sport. Nobody wants to watch gripfighting and failed throws. The federation people don't like this because they can't sell advertising that people aren't going to see. They've somehow made the sport even 'more' esoteric and 'less' watchable in trying to cater to the TV audience.

Why would I spend 3 hours watching people in pajamas paw at each other and maybe hit a few sweet throws? Because I love the technique so much? Flip on a WWE match - multiple throws per minute, and world-class ukemi.

 

[QingTian]

Yes live Judo should only be for superfight type events, or worlds/All Japan levels.

Personally I watch zero of the grand slams.

 

[Zankou]

so if this

had he landed on his back, ippon or no? because there was some hopping.

and also on the previous point, he landed completely face down but with a ton of impact. i think most children would call that an ippon

Ippon is usually defined as flat on the back with control maintained. I’d have to see the full clip of that throw to know, but just a massively overcommitted uchi mata where the opponent potentially ends up in better position and you don’t maintain control, that’s no good at all.

It’s indicative of the problem that the clip doesn’t even show whether control was maintained through impact because that’s not considered relevant to whether it was an amazing uchimata. Which sucks.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

Ippon is usually defined as flat on the back with control maintained. I’d have to see the full clip of that throw to know, but just a massively overcommitted uchi mata where the opponent potentially ends up in better position and you don’t maintain control, that’s no good at all.

but i think the idea is that if you throw someone that hard in a real situation (and they land on their back and likely get KO'd or significantly injured) it may not be relevant the position you land in nor how much subsequent immediate control you have

 

[Zankou]

but i think the idea is that if you throw someone that hard in a real situation (and they land on their back and likely get KO'd or significantly injured) it may not be relevant the position you land in nor how much subsequent immediate control you have

Two things though. First I think that ideology of the ‘KO impact’ is highly overrated relative to maintaining top control from a throw. Second, these hoppy hoppy who-will-win-by-centimeters jump into a roll throws actually involve comparatively little impact ... the opponent is already static a foot or two above the floor, fighting the throw, before he finally loses and is thrown. The actual physical drop is relatively slight, which is why QingTian rightly emphasizes the continuity of throw from the start that you need to build up genuine impact.

 

[QingTian]

As a pedantic refresher, kinetic energy = 1/2 * mass * velocity^2, where velocity is the integral of acceleration over time.

In exponential curves, the vast majority of the gains are to be had at the end of the curve. Everything else is near zippo. That is why you need height (for time) and unopposed motion at the start (for acceleration). That's what gives you the build up.

Same reason you have few coronavirus cases for weeks and it all looks meh, but then finally in a week it turns into zombie apocalypse.

So actually, it should not be difficult to tell what is a KO throw.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

oof that is not good use of high school physics. in terms of kinetic energy, what is relevant is the velocity at impact, not the average you would get by integrating over time.

 

[QingTian]

Integration is not averaging. It is summation, ie. the velocity at impact.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

Integration is not averaging. It is summation, ie. the velocity at impact.

an integral over time divided by time is the average over time. i cant imagine a scenerio where the "summation" of velocity over time is a useful measure. the summation of velocity of time is not the velocity at impact. the velocity at impact is velocity.

 

[QingTian]

The summation is of acceleration, leading to velocity at impact. An integral is not division for an average, it is the summation of the area under the curve.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

i misread your initial post, i thought you were integrating velocity

 

[RJ Green]

 

[Salves sod Iqueac]

Judo vs Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, before Kimura. Defeat, leglocks and cheating. BJJ is half Catch Wrestling? The story that judokas don't want you to know.

The triangle choke and leg locks being used by the original Gracie brothers is extremely interesting.

 

[Salves sod Iqueac]

Judo vs Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, before Kimura. Defeat, leglocks and cheating. BJJ is half Catch Wrestling? The story that judokas don't want you to know.

The triangle choke and leg locks being used by the original Gracie brothers is extremely interesting.

My source for the fights of George Gracie is the journalist Christiano Milfont, maybe it is through him working together with colleague and researcher Elton Silva. One more thing, on the Facebook fan page called George Gracie, there is an interview in which George Gracie describes heel-hook as Helio Gracie's favorite technique. Cool isn't it?

 

[Deleted member 405583]

My source for the fights of George Gracie is the journalist Christiano Milfont, maybe it is through him working together with colleague and researcher Elton Silva. One more thing, on the Facebook fan page called George Gracie, there is an interview in which George Gracie describes heel-hook as Helio Gracie's favorite technique. Cool isn't it?

Funny story, carlson sr loved them also

 

[Salves sod Iqueac]

Funny story, carlson sr loved them also

I made a mistake. In fact, George claimed that Helio's favorite move was the footlock. However, at some point the Gracies did learn heel-hook from Ivan Gomes.