Official Women's Division Discussion #26

[vgff]

Problem being the commission doctors are remarkably untrained in this area, like most doctors. Many commissions just assume a doctor knows something about this when the reality is that - last time I wrote on the subject - not a single medical school requires a physician to take a single course in nutrition or exercise physiology. This is fine if you show up at the ER with a steering wheel in your chest and need a trauma specialist, but there is no regulation or course that ensures physicians are particularly knowledgeable in this area. The requires in most states that I am familiar with (this is only a few) are laughable with respect to being a "sports medicine specialist."

It is really too bad as there are some very interesting sub-specialties that can be studied, but most of your knowledgeable physicians wind up working for professional teams and have little to do with athletic commissions.

i don't know which doctors gets recruited to athletic commissions, but one thing is for sure:
one thing all doctors trained in the western world knows, is how to evaluate a dehydrated patient.
it's one of the most common problems in the ER, more than heart attacks and pneumonia.
if there's one thing i trust commission doctors to know, it's being able to evaluate a dehydrated person
no matter if it's an athlete or a 90 year old woman
dehydration is a problem that has been studied by the medical field for hundreds of years, long before fighters started cutting weight.

that being said, in the fight game i understand there are forces who can affect doctors to make decisions that isn't medically preferrable

 

[Xuh]

'Molly McCann UFC winning streak' about to be a thing



also another of the growing list of WMMA fights that look like mirror matches or mother/daughter matches (the promo image for Jojua/Moras gives the vibe of an angry mother vs her rude daughter).

 

[Eater of Souls]

i don't know which doctors gets recruited to athletic commissions, but one thing is for sure:
one thing all doctors trained in the western world knows, is how to evaluate a dehydrated patient.
it's one of the most common problems in the ER, more than heart attacks and pneumonia.
if there's one thing i trust commission doctors to know, it's being able to evaluate a dehydrated person
no matter if it's an athlete or a 90 year old woman
dehydration is a problem that has been studied by the medical field for hundreds of years, long before fighters started cutting weight.

that being said, in the fight game i understand there are forces who can affect doctors to make decisions that isn't medically preferrable

Yes. I should have been more clear. The % recommendation is not based on solid science. There are no studies covering performance under the conditions a fighter puts themselves through. So the people making recommendations about the cut are basing it off not only possibly limited experience but a lack of solid research.

You cannot use general population studies for special populations under unique conditions with any degree of validity.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

'Molly McCann UFC winning streak' about to be a thing



also another of the growing list of WMMA fights that look like mirror matches or mother/daughter matches (the promo image for Jojua/Moras gives the vibe of an angry mother vs her rude daughter).

I think you're right on with molly here, this diana never beaten anyone with more then a few fights from what I can see.
Also got a good laugh out of that mom/daughter match thing

 

[Xuh]

Also got a good laugh out of that mom/daughter match thing

Moras is pissed that her daughter is going out dressed like that...



Jojua: 'wha-ever! I do what I want!'

 

[PurpleStorm]

Moras is pissed that her daughter is going out dressed like that...



Jojua: 'wha-ever! I do what I want!'

Moras: 'Don't show so much cleavage.'

Jojua: 'Catch me outside how bow dat?'

 

[leto1776]

Moras: 'Don't show so much cleavage.'

Jojua: 'Catch me outside how bow dat?'

It’s like you read my mind

 

[vgff]

Yes. I should have been more clear. The % recommendation is not based on solid science. There are no studies covering performance under the conditions a fighter puts themselves through. So the people making recommendations about the cut are basing it off not only possibly limited experience but a lack of solid research.

You cannot use general population studies for special populations under unique conditions with any degree of validity.

you're right.
so that begs the question: what criteria does commission doctors use when they set a maximum of 10-15% drop in bodyweight or whatever the number is?
is it a number solely based on avoiding potentially life-threatening conditions (like electrolyte disturbances that could cause cardiac arrest)?
or a more arbitrary number, believed to be the threshold where the athlete cannot perform to their max potential the next day?
i guess it's somewhere in the middle, and that they'll get it more right as the amount of data on this increases over time

 

[Eater of Souls]

you're right.
so that begs the question: what criteria does commission doctors use when they set a maximum of 10-15% drop in bodyweight or whatever the number is?
is it a number solely based on avoiding potentially life-threatening conditions (like electrolyte disturbances that could cause cardiac arrest)?
or a more arbitrary number, believed to be the threshold where the athlete cannot perform to their max potential the next day?
i guess it's somewhere in the middle, and that they'll get it more right as the amount of data on this increases over time

Pretty much arbitrary. The major, uh, difficulty, I guess you would call it, is that ethics committees will not allow studies under these conditions. We are not allowed to take a bunch hungry dumb-asses (read: grad students who need money), pay them shit and starve and dehydrate them to the point fighters do it. So while we can theoretically extrapolate, there are significant changes that occur under extreme conditions, including reactions secondary to changes in ACTH levels that we cannot accurately predict. So while they are erring on the safe side, which is the responsible thing to do, they cannot say with certainty what is actually tolerable and safe as it has never been properly studied.

Sort of like the idiotic USADA limit to THC during fight week. Given that it is released from adipocytes during dieting, dehydrating and (again) changes in ACTH levels, no studies have been done under fight week conditions and the levels are wholly arbitrary. Zero actual science supports this. Why no one has challenged this is beyond me, as even the WHO has questioned USADA about its practices here.

There are naturally going to be problems given that actual sports science is technically a new field compared to many others, but the biggest issue is that most ACs and the USADA are run by people in fields other than sports science or other appropriate field. Particularly USADA, which is run by shady as fuck lawyers.

 

[leto1776]

If you watch Rizin, you might recognize Saray Orozco:


Just signed with Combate America’s, will fight Sept 27th, opponent TBA.

 

[leto1776]

Speak of Combate Americas, two ladies fights scheduled for this Friday. Whether or not they will actually go down as scheduled is anyone’s guess.
https://www.combateamericas.com/en/events/combate-americas-tahoe

 

[PurpleStorm]

FRIDAY, AUGUST 23RD

[MMA] Fury FC 35 Humble, Texas, USA
Main Card – iPPV (Fite.tv) – 7:00pm ET / 4:00pm PT
Diara Culpepper vs. Paris Morgan
Jacola Caldwell vs. Brianna Winfrey

[MMA] Combate 42: Tahoe Lake Tahoe, Nevada, USA
Main Card – DAZN / Univision Deportes – 12:00am ET / 9:00pm PT
Preliminary Card – DAZN / Facebook – 10:00pm ET / 7:00pm PT
Marilia Morais vs. Chelsea Chandler
Felisha Magallan vs. Lupita Godinez
SATURDAY, AUGUST 24TH

[KICKBOXING] K-1 World Grand Prix 2019 Japan Osaka, Japan
Main Card – Abema.tv / GAORA – 2:00am ET / 11:00pm PT
Kana vs. Mahiro
Preliminary Card – Abema.tv – 12:30am ET / 9:30pm PT

[KICKBOXING] FEA Kickboxing World GP Odessa, Ukraine
Main Card – iPPV (FeaFights.tv) / XSport – 2:00pm ET / 11:00am PT

[MMA] Iron Boy MMA 16 Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Main Card – Facebook – 8:00pm ET / 5:00pm PT
Litzy Hernandez vs. Shania Arredondo
Shakira Lindsay vs. Angelica Flores

[MMA] Bellator 225: Mitrione vs. Kharitonov 2 Bridgeport, Connecticut, USA
Main Card – Paramount Network / DAZN – 9:00pm ET / 6:00pm PT
Alejandra Lara vs. Taylor Turner

https://grabakahitman.wordpress.com

 

[PurpleStorm]

Speak of Combate Americas, two ladies fights scheduled for this Friday. Whether or not they will actually go down as scheduled is anyone’s guess.
https://www.combateamericas.com/en/events/combate-americas-tahoe

Yeah, since they are prelims looks like they will be on DAZN and Facebook starting at 10pm ET.

 

[leto1776]

 

[Necrocrawler]

Is it me or Tomo is really looking like Syuri kondo in this poster?

Anyway, battle of the vets.

 

[vgff]

Alejandra Lara going political in the Bellator 225 weigh ins

 

[thatdude21601]

This Future FC card tonight has a bantamweight fight between 4-0 Nina Loch vs 3-0 Dayane Souza.


Random info; In 2010 Loch fought in Bangkok on a show that also had Valentina Shevchenko beating Lina Lansberg.

Unfortunately Loch is in her mid 30's, so maybe not a hot young prospect.

 

[Dsfdandan]

Alejandra Lara going political in the Bellator 225 weigh ins
View attachment 634593

I just realized this was a bantamweight fight, when watching the weigh ins I just thought she missed by 10 pounds lol

 

[PurpleStorm]

This Future FC card tonight has a bantamweight fight between 4-0 Nina Loch vs 3-0 Dayane Souza.


Random info; In 2010 Loch fought in Bangkok on a show that also had Valentina Shevchenko beating Lina Lansberg.

Unfortunately Loch is in her mid 30's, so maybe not a hot young prospect.

Thanks. Loch's opponent is listed on screen & by the announcers as Day Monster. Maybe a prank. Not sure I agree with how the split decision went. Anyone who watched, what do you think?

 

[leto1776]