Oliveira, Islam, Dariush...who has the better ground game?

New Yorkido said:
Islam has both World Class Wrestling and Top Sambo, and decent BJJ.
Oliveira has ok wrestling at best, zero sumbo/judo, Top BJJ
Dariush has Top Grappling, zero judo/sambo, great BJJ

The Winer is Islam IMHO as he covers all aspects of ground game. no holes IMHO!
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I would go with Islam but still learning and maybe overlooking what level Dariush grappling is.
 
Heraclitus said:
I agree.

I find Oliviera to be somewhat effeminate and weak, I find Daiush to lack finish. Islam lacks neither.

Let's remember, he sometimes wins rounds against Khabib, according to Javier Mendez. Neither Dariush nor Oliviera have the power of Khabib or Islam.

Islam dominates them both, never gets submitted by either, and has a good chance of submitting both.

IMO Oliviera is the most fragile of the bunch, and Dariush the least-threatening.

Also, and importantly, Islam has not yet come into his prime. With Khabib as his coach, and with the foundation already being laid in Dagestan, Islam is going to beat them both.
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Oliveira effeminate and weak? Are you basing that off of his hair colour? Or his past at FW 10 years ago?

Oliveira's been an unstoppable force the last couple years at LW, and he's used his "effeminate fragile body" to wreck dudes with grappling credentials like Mike Chandler, Tony, Kevin Lee. I agree Islam is likely physically stronger, but it's crazy to underestimate Olveira at this point. He's also far and away a better striker than Islam which often plays a big factor when two elite grapplers meet. Either way, Islam likely needs at least 2-3 more wins before he finds himself in a title fight opportunity (I hope he gets there as I'd love to see him against top guys like Oliveira and Poirier).
 
Olivera has the best submissions but his control suffers because he can be overly offensive. His wrestling us solid but nothing too crazy.

Dariush has very good top control, solid wrestling, solid subs. Very well rounded but he can be a bit too passive imo. He needs to pull the trigger more.

Islam is a phenomenal wrestler with good top control. His positional control is very good. He has a solid sub game but it could use work. Best TDD out of the 3. He's a good balance of the other two imo.

Hard call to make but I'll say Islam and Oli are definitely above Dariush
 
If you put a gun to my head and forced me to pick I'd back Islam. He has a really solid mix of wrestling, sambo, judo, and BJJ techniques to fall back on and has outgrappled two guys with very legit credentials in Ramos and Tsarukyan. Blends the disciplines well to control his opponents and stay safe on the ground, seizing opportunities as they appear. He's also absurdly strong.

But I don't think the disparity is so great that I feel it's a total foregone conclusion between him and either two.
 
I think Makhachev would control them both from top position. I also don't see either of them getting Makhachev down.
 
DS66 said:
Oliveira effeminate and weak? Are you basing that off of his hair colour? Or his past at FW 10 years ago?
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His facial structure and effeminate smile and mannerisms.

Please keep in mind I'm comparing Oliviera to the baddest fighters on the planet, I am not comparing them to mainstream John Q. Milquetoasts.

In comparison to the baddest fighters who have ever lived, Oliviera is faint of heart, he quits, has expressions on of his feminine face of "worry," and will sit on his ass, dejected, if he gets overwhelmed too quickly (after quitting).

Please realize many authentically tough fighters have never quit, and get up IMMEDIATELY, if they're conscious. Some fighters would never, EVER "sit" after an injury.

That said, Olivera was pretty close to quitting that again to Chandler, but "pulled guard" through an effort of will/training/experience managed to rally and pull out the victory. Credit to them for that.

However, against Khabib, I am 100% confident Oliviera would shit himself and quit after rounds two or three.

He's not better than Khabib at any aspect of the fight game, especially in determination/toughness/will, and he doesn't have the strength or stamina to last five rounds with the Dagestanian.
 
Oliveira is a 3rd degree black belt with sub wins over Jim Miller, Guida, Hioki and Lee, and a ground domination over Ferguson. Aside from Hioki these wins are during his current streak. He is the most proven.

Jim Miller has been one of the best black belts at LW for a long time. Guida got ground wins over Pettis and Nate Diaz. Both at the time highly regarded grapplers. Hioki is known for his ground game. Lee gets praise for it as well.
 
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Is Charles ground game overrated?

He couldn't do anything with a Chandler's back and got submitted by the likes of Pettis and Lamas.
 
Heraclitus said:
I agree.

I find Oliviera to be somewhat effeminate and weak, I find Daiush to lack finish. Islam lacks neither.

IMO Oliviera is the most fragile of the bunch, and Dariush the least-threatening.
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That's exactly the impression that I have about Charles. While he is skilled on the ground, he also doesn't look opressive on the ground as someone like Islam or Khabib.
 
The guy who has the UFC record for submission wins... just saying
<{hughesimpress}>
 
New Yorkido said:
you're uncurbable dumbass. dont need to go far, but just watch islam's last fight with Dobberman. He used Osoto Gari and Ochi Gari to trip Dobber from a clinch. No need for a double or single leg take-downs son. If you want more lessons girl, look up Karo Parisian's fights where he skillfully uses Judo/Sambo base to take people down. It's a bread and butter of successful ground game.
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Get lost stupid kid. Go watch Nastula, Yoshida or Ogawa fights.
 
Greyscale said:
Get lost stupid kid. Go watch Nastula, Yoshida or Ogawa fights.
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Okay, a fan of healthy Shogun, Chuck with that look in his eyes, old Vitor and motivated BJ. Lol.... look yourself in the mirror and don't be afraid to jump cunt.
 
Benoitthegr8 said:
The guy who has the UFC record for submission wins... just saying
<{hughesimpress}>
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Doesn't cowboy have the most KO's or most wins? So that makes him the best striker or overall GOAT, using your logic of most # or = best
 
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kingmob6 said:
So him beating Arman & Davi Ramos...means nothing to you in the last few fights. Got it.
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Looks like he did some wonders on the ground in those fights. Like Muniz at UFC 262, no less. :D
 
Islam probably has the best control while Oliveira is probably the most dangerous finisher on the ground. Dariush is a bit of both, great control but always looks for the submission and can pull out some crazy submissions. We saw him almost finish Tony with a leg lock and he had that sick triangle armbar from the back against Dober.

I'm a bit annoyed because I feel like I would've prefer to see Khabib face off against grapplers like Oliveira and Dariush over guys who are primarily strikers like Conor, Poirier, and Gaethje.
 
Heraclitus said:
I agree.

I find Oliviera to be somewhat effeminate and weak, I find Daiush to lack finish. Islam lacks neither.

Let's remember, he sometimes wins rounds against Khabib, according to Javier Mendez. Neither Dariush nor Oliviera have the power of Khabib or Islam.

Islam dominates them both, never gets submitted by either, and has a good chance of submitting both.

IMO Oliviera is the most fragile of the bunch, and Dariush the least-threatening.

Also, and importantly, Islam has not yet come into his prime. With Khabib as his coach, and with the foundation already being laid in Dagestan, Islam is going to beat them both.
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Dariush is the least threatening and lacks finishes? Islam has three subs and one KO in the UFC while Dariush has five subs and three KOs. Dariush is a better finisher than Islam.
 
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