Oliveira, Islam, Dariush...who has the better ground game?

[Morning Star]

This is why they fight. Because nobody knows the answer until they do.

Best answer ITT. Lot of people used to think Tony was top of the LW food chain on the ground before his last 2 fights, but he looked completely helpless against Chuck and Beneil.

 

[Mayonnaiseandjelly]

Oliveira by far. Then Islam. Then Beneil, who has good control but he is not that dangerous on the ground. IMO.

He fuckin broke Tony’s arm guy

 

[One Pneuma]

His facial structure and effeminate smile and mannerisms.

Please keep in mind I'm comparing Oliviera to the baddest fighters on the planet, I am not comparing them to mainstream John Q. Milquetoasts.

In comparison to the baddest fighters who have ever lived, Oliviera is faint of heart, he quits, has expressions on of his feminine face of "worry," and will sit on his ass, dejected, if he gets overwhelmed too quickly (after quitting).

Please realize many authentically tough fighters have never quit, and get up IMMEDIATELY, if they're conscious. Some fighters would never, EVER "sit" after an injury.

That said, Olivera was pretty close to quitting that again to Chandler, but "pulled guard" through an effort of will/training/experience managed to rally and pull out the victory. Credit to them for that.

However, against Khabib, I am 100% confident Oliviera would shit himself and quit after rounds two or three.

He's not better than Khabib at any aspect of the fight game, especially in determination/toughness/will, and he doesn't have the strength or stamina to last five rounds with the Dagestanian.

Feminine face of worry LOL, ur a nut. Wouldn't be 100% sure Charles O would lose to Khabib. Things can happen.

No man can step into the same river twice...

 

[Heraclitus]

Islam probably has the best control while Oliveira is probably the most dangerous finisher on the ground. Dariush is a bit of both, great control but always looks for the submission and can pull out some crazy submissions. We saw him almost finish Tony with a leg lock and he had that sick triangle armbar from the back against Dober.

I'm a bit annoyed because I feel like I would've prefer to see Khabib face off against grapplers like Oliveira and Dariush over guys who are primarily strikers like Conor, Poirier, and Gaethje.

Dariush is not a true fighter. He's a point sparrer. Even though he beat Tony, he lost all my respect for not tearing his leg off, and just looking to "crotch sniff" his way to a point victory. That's sports jujitsu, not true combat.

Olivera is definitely finisher, but is a little fragile and weak, IMO.

I think Islam is stronger than both, a true finisher, and a tougher man than both.

He would dominate both, IMO.

 

[Heraclitus]

Feminine face of worry LOL, ur a nut. Wouldn't be 100% sure Charles O would lose to Khabib. Things can happen.

No man can step into the same river twice...

Thanks for semi-quoting Heraclitus' most famous saying, "It is impossible to step twice into the same river."

I for one, who am somewhat cautious, would bet every single disposable asset I have that Khabib Nurmagomedov would soundly defeat Charles Oliviera, and I might even bet some of my precious assets as well.

Oliviera is a weakling, mentally and physically, compared to Khabib.

Nowhere near the pressure, nowhere near the grit, nowhere near the chin, nowhere near the willpower under stress.

Oliviera would soil himself by around five, if he even made it that far, with Khabib.

He's quit in the first round, to less than half of what Khabib is able to put out.

Please get real.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Dariush is not a true fighter. He's a point sparrer. Even though he beat Tony, he lost all my respect for not tearing his leg off, and just looking to "crotch sniff" his way to a point victory. That's sports jujitsu, not true combat.

Olivera is definitely finisher, but is a little fragile and weak, IMO.

I think Islam is stronger than both, a true finisher, and a tougher man than both.

He would dominate both, IMO.

Dariush is a point sparrer? He has more finishes than decision wins in the UFC and twice as many finishes as Islam.

 

[VAfan]

oliveira's ground game looks like the best in the ufc to me. it's not only solid, it's insanely aggressive, he's capable of finishing the fight off his back at all times.

 

[thelittleman]

you're uncurbable dumbass. dont need to go far, but just watch islam's last fight with Dobberman. He used Osoto Gari and Ochi Gari to trip Dobber from a clinch. No need for a double or single leg take-downs son. If you want more lessons girl, look up Karo Parisian's fights where he skillfully uses Judo/Sambo base to take people down. It's a bread and butter of successful ground game.

I hate to break it to you... But there haven’t been many examples of Judokas being dominant in MMA... which is quite telling! Obviously their are great trips/throws which can be applied from the clinch.

And the great Sambo fighters DO NOT count as... As every dominant Sambo fighter of the last decade looks more like a freestyle wrestler. Khabib being the paradigm of that statement.

“Sambo’s always sucked. And I don’t believe Khabib is a Sambo player. I think somewhere, he just wanted to pay respects to Sambo. I believe he got the skills that he got being Dagestani, and I believe he got them in a wrestling room.”

- Chael Sonnen

 

[Dacha]

Great to have those 3 guys in LW.

On ground they are all superb.

Islam can chain takedown w ground control little bit better. But that could not mean much.

 

[Hassan Mouzine]

come on people

y'all really think that the bjj of dariush and oliveira is better than the all around grappling game of islam?

khabib has shown what he can do to more accomplished wrestlers and bjj practicioners........the grappling that abdulmanap taught khabib and islam is too complete. top 10 fighters are avoiding islam like the plague because they know. the only reason they wanted to fight khabib because he had the belt and was undefeated. they are not goin anywhere near makhachaev

nobody was ducking dariush or charles, they clearly are ducking islam and some of then out right admit it

 

[One Pneuma]

Dariush is a point sparrer? He has more finishes than decision wins in the UFC and twice as many finishes as Islam.

Yea but he’s not a man’s man like Islam. He doesn’t have the masculine features nor the punishing groin that it takes to impress

 

[kingmob6]

I hate to break it to you... But there haven’t been many examples of Judokas being dominant in MMA... which is quite telling! Obviously their are great trips/throws which can be applied from the clinch.

And the great Sambo fighters DO NOT count as... As every dominant Sambo fighter of the last decade looks more like a freestyle wrestler. Khabib being the paradigm of that statement.

“Sambo’s always sucked. And I don’t believe Khabib is a Sambo player. I think somewhere, he just wanted to pay respects to Sambo. I believe he got the skills that he got being Dagestani, and I believe he got them in a wrestling room.”

- Chael Sonnen

Lmao, Chael has been so wrong on Sambo...he barely understand what Sambo is. I've literally caught him say idiotic things about sambo like 3-4 times, that tell me that his knowledge of the sport is non-existent.

Both Khabib & Islam are true representatives of Sambo. Khabib's dad is one of the best Sambo trainers of all time, and have made like 20+ Sambo world champions. Sambo is a fluent sport, that incorporates various martial arts, including wrestling. A sambo fighter, just like in mma, can be a better striker vs a better grappler/wrestler etc and still have success in Sambo. Does Fedor look like a freestlye wrestler?

 

[xhaydenx]

Oliveira by far. Then Islam. Then Beneil, who has good control but he is not that dangerous on the ground. IMO.

How is Benny not a threat? He's subbed as many guys as Islam and the ones he's subbed are way better competition. Islam's best sub win is Kajan or Dober. Kajan sucks and Benny also subbed Dober, but he did it quicker than Islam.

And I don't think Olivera is really ahead of the pack at all. He's great, no fucking doubt, but look at who he's subbed and when. Lee isn't good. Teymur isn't good. Miller and Guida were well past it.

Every time Olivera has fought someone who isn't a mid-lister or past it, he got beaten, and a lot of the losses were actually by sub. Pettis and Lamas both tapped him. Felder had no problems at all with him on the ground. I mean, he subbed Miller in 2018 when Miller was well past it, but 8 years prior it was Miller subbing him in the first round.

Not saying Oli isn't good. He's great, but the sub and ground game have to be taken in context.

I'd probably have it Benny then Islam then Charles. Charles is surprisingly looking like the more dangerous striker lately.

 

[thelittleman]

Lmao, Chael has been so wrong on Sambo...he barely understand what Sambo is. I've literally caught him say idiotic things about sambo like 3-4 times, that tell me that his knowledge of the sport is non-existent.

Both Khabib & Islam are true representatives of Sambo. Khabib's dad is one of the best Sambo trainers of all time, and have made like 20+ Sambo world champions. Sambo is a fluent sport, that incorporates various martial arts, including wrestling. A sambo fighter, just like in mma, can be a better striker vs a better grappler/wrestler etc and still have success in Sambo. Does Fedor look like a freestlye wrestler?

I’m actually a Fedor super fan. Do you consider him a fighter of the last 10 years??? His reign of dominance ended in 2010 and he officially retired in 2012.

I think Chael says dumb/ridiculous things all of the time(but I agree with him only as it relates to Khabib).

I have been telling my friends in the BJJ community that they should be training sambo, for the exact same reason that Jon Danahar does on what he does.



That doesn’t change the fact that Khabib is primarily a wrestler.

 

[Ackmed]

How is Benny not a threat? He's subbed as many guys as Islam and the ones he's subbed are way better competition. Islam's best sub win is Kajan or Dober. Kajan sucks and Benny also subbed Dober, but he did it quicker than Islam.

Dariush vs Dober was a lot closer than Islam vs Dober. Dariush won but got pieced up. Dober has also improved since his first Dariush fight.

 

[1pedestrian]

I'm going with the guy who outgrappled ranked opponents and holds the UFC record for most submission wins (Oliveira), followed by the guy who outgrappled ranked opponents (Dariush). Islam looks good and promising but he's still unproven against the elite.

 

[LilNicky95]

Who has the better ground game between the 3? Who you picking if these fights took place:

Oliveira vs Islam?
Oliveira vs Dariush?
Islam vs Dariush?

None of the above....

Francisco Trinaldo

 

[Safton]

Dariush is a point sparrer? He has more finishes than decision wins in the UFC and twice as many finishes as Islam.

This clown clearly didn't watch the Klose or Holtzman bouts. The epitome of point-sparring...

 

[Islam Imamate]

This clown clearly didn't watch the Klose or Holtzman bouts. The epitome of point-sparring...

Its crazy how little time Dariush needs to tap some of these guys once the fight hits the mat. Very high level BJJ.

 

[Rajon Rondo]

Oliveria has been taken down and submitted. Idk about Benny

Islam is clearly #1