Overhand palm heel vs overhand punch for barefist

TheMaster

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I'm talking about in the style of White Tiger Kempo like Hackney which he threw to fell a 600Ibs man.
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Nowadays we don't see it as the gloves make palm heels almost impossible as well providing artificial protection to the knuckles, although we still see broken hands common.

So for barefist how viable is an overhand right with closed fist vs overhand palm heel?
I definitely favour the palm heel. Can generate just as much force and the overhand has too much chance of hitting the top of the head and causing a break to be thrown with full power as a closed fist.
 
I favoured an overhand right with a closed fist when I competed in MMA. I guess I would land with part of the bottom of the fist as well, might have been more power if I emphasised the palm heel. I dislocated my finger badly grappling and it didn't heal properly, after that it was agony connnecting with my index knuckle, before that I never felt any pain.

I don't have any particularly strong opinions on the issue but I thought it was probably more powerful when I landed with the index knuckle, timestamped an overhand right here;



Nate Diaz seems to choose to slap his opponent much of the time, I don't really understand the rationale for that other than to mock the opponent.
 
I favoured an overhand right with a closed fist when I competed in MMA. I guess I would land with part of the bottom of the fist as well, might have been more power if I emphasised the palm heel. I dislocated my finger badly grappling and it didn't heal properly, after that it was agony connnecting with my index knuckle, before that I never felt any pain.

I don't have any particularly strong opinions on the issue but I thought it was probably more powerful when I landed with the index knuckle, timestamped an overhand right here;



Nate Diaz seems to choose to slap his opponent much of the time, I don't really understand the rationale for that other than to mock the opponent.

So it seems then you are agreeing with the premise that throwing an overhand punch bareknuckle would be ill advised and you would likely go with an overhand palm heel as you still hurt your hands throwing an overhand while competing with gloves?
 
So it seems then you are agreeing with the premise that throwing an overhand punch bareknuckle would be ill advised and you would likely go with an overhand palm heel as you still hurt your hands throwing an overhand while competing with gloves?
I think you have just as much ability to hurt your wrist with a overhand palm heel if you miss judge it.
Personally I'll overhand anyone, anywhere, any time with or without gloves.
I think the risks are 50/50 either way really. You might break your hand/wrist or you might not. It more comes down to what you're more comfortable throwing.
 
I think you have just as much ability to hurt your wrist with a overhand palm heel if you miss judge it.
Personally I'll overhand anyone, anywhere, any time with or without gloves.
I think the risks are 50/50 either way really. You might break your hand/wrist or you might not. It more comes down to what you're more comfortable throwing.
You say you would throw an overhand punch in any conditions with or without gloves, but your experience with it is all from gloved fighting.

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I don't agree that the risk of breaking the wrist is anywhere near as high throwing a palm heel as of breaking the knuckles from an overhand. It's unlikely whereas not only do you have a higher chance of breaking the knuckles but also breaking or rolling/spraining the wrist throwing a punch without wraps.

I don't believe the overhand is used as much in BKFC which backs this up.
 
You say you would throw an overhand punch in any conditions with or without gloves, but your experience with it is all from gloved fighting.

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I don't agree that the risk of breaking the wrist is anywhere near as high throwing a palm heel as of breaking the knuckles from an overhand. It's unlikely whereas not only do you have a higher chance of breaking the knuckles but also breaking or rolling/spraining the wrist throwing a punch without wraps.

I don't believe the overhand is used as much in BKFC which backs this up.
When I was 16 - 19ish I had been fighting already for several years, I'd overhand people in fights at parties and the like, I didn't wear gloves then.
In 18 years of competing I never once hurt my wrist either, I hurt my elbow a few times when I miss judged range or the lunged forward and caused me to hyper extend it a little.
Hell the only time I ever injured my hands was wearing gloves on the heavy bag.
Personally I don't worry about breaking my hands or things like that, if I have to defend myself I'll use whatever I can, If I break my hand I still have elbows and knees and kicks to fall back on.
A wrist is incredibly easy to break as well. Perhaps not as easy as your bottom knuckles would be though.
The examples you use for the overhand palm heel are a bit meh for me to be able to judge it as they look like a manlet palming a giant, I don't think its a great example to judge on efficiency, and I can't say I've ever seen anyone palm anyone in a fight in person.
 
So it seems then you are agreeing with the premise that throwing an overhand punch bareknuckle would be ill advised and you would likely go with an overhand palm heel as you still hurt your hands throwing an overhand while competing with gloves?

I have wondered is it better to start throwing punches connecting with the palm side of the hand as there does seem to be a lot of broken hands in MMA.

In my case it was a necessity due to my finger/knuckle issue.

I’ve never really heard a knock out argument from either side, seems like a lot of conjecture.

I think you probably get more power landing with the knuckles so it is preferable if you can avoid breaking your hand.
 
I have wondered is it better to start throwing punches connecting with the palm side of the hand as there does seem to be a lot of broken hands in MMA.

In my case it was a necessity due to my finger/knuckle issue.

I’ve never really heard a knock out argument from either side, seems like a lot of conjecture.

I think you probably get more power landing with the knuckles so it is preferable if you can avoid breaking your hand.
I feel the broken hands in MMA aren't the result of hands being brittle when punching and more a result of guys throwing punches before their fist has finished forming (If you understand what I mean)
 
I feel the broken hands in MMA aren't the result of hands being brittle when punching and more a result of guys throwing punches before their fist has finished forming (If you understand what I mean)

It could be that.

I’m not following the sport closely enough to know how often it’s happening right now.

I think at one stage it was happening quite a bit. IIRC in Cruz Vs Faber they both broke their hands and one guy (Faber I think) broke both hands. It might have just been that, that one guy had a habit of throwing with a loose fist until expected impact.
 
We have old-school "swing" punch from bare-knuckles days of English boxing. Still pretty usable in mma and even in boxing gloves. "Inverted glass" fist position.
 
When I was 16 - 19ish I had been fighting already for several years, I'd overhand people in fights at parties and the like, I didn't wear gloves then.
In 18 years of competing I never once hurt my wrist either, I hurt my elbow a few times when I miss judged range or the lunged forward and caused me to hyper extend it a little.
Hell the only time I ever injured my hands was wearing gloves on the heavy bag.
Personally I don't worry about breaking my hands or things like that, if I have to defend myself I'll use whatever I can, If I break my hand I still have elbows and knees and kicks to fall back on.
A wrist is incredibly easy to break as well. Perhaps not as easy as your bottom knuckles would be though.
The examples you use for the overhand palm heel are a bit meh for me to be able to judge it as they look like a manlet palming a giant, I don't think its a great example to judge on efficiency, and I can't say I've ever seen anyone palm anyone in a fight in person.
Ok so you have some experience overhanding people at parties and you didnt damage your hands or wrists which is something.

It's all very well to have kicks and elbows as a backup although you might still need your hands for grappling or defending grappling so I wouldn't have such a cavalier attitude about breaking them in fight.

Wrists are wrapped in competition including in BKFC which protects them from damage.

I've not seen any stats on how common the overhand is in BK but it doesn't look like it's used as much at all as in mma or in normal boxing.

Again the risk of rolling the wrist is higher without wraps so this would favour the palm heel where there is no chance of that.

The example I gave is probably the single most famous palm strike in combat sports, Bas was famous for them also but the one by Hackney shows the power in being able to use them to drop even a giant.

It's just a shame that due to rules and other limitations we don't see these techniques used as much (which also feeds into the narrative that its mainly only boxing that works and allows them to gloat in a false sense of what can be effective)

Get rid of the gloves and wraps and we would probably see palm strike city alot more especially for overhands but even just to preserve the hands for normal strikes where grappling might also be needed.

The angles of an overhand don't make it a sensible choice to be throwing a fist where there is good chance the guy can duck or turn his head down and your hand will be done.
 
Ok so you have some experience overhanding people at parties and you didnt damage your hands or wrists which is something.

It's all very well to have kicks and elbows as a backup although you might still need your hands for grappling or defending grappling so I wouldn't have such a cavalier attitude about breaking them in fight.

Wrists are wrapped in competition including in BKFC which protects them from damage.

I've not seen any stats on how common the overhand is in BK but it doesn't look like it's used as much at all as in mma or in normal boxing.

Again the risk of rolling the wrist is higher without wraps so this would favour the palm heel where there is no chance of that.

The example I gave is probably the single most famous palm strike in combat sports, Bas was famous for them also but the one by Hackney shows the power in being able to use them to drop even a giant.

It's just a shame that due to rules and other limitations we don't see these techniques used as much (which also feeds into the narrative that its mainly only boxing that works and allows them to gloat in a false sense of what can be effective)

Get rid of the gloves and wraps and we would probably see palm strike city alot more especially for overhands but even just to preserve the hands for normal strikes where grappling might also be needed.

The angles of an overhand don't make it a sensible choice to be throwing a fist where there is good chance the guy can duck or turn his head down and your hand will be done.
Comparing professional fighters to the average punter you'll meet in the street isn't a great indication of use cases either. I wouldn't advocate punching someone in the head 300 times without hand wraps either.
A BKFC guy is throwing like 80 - 150 punches a round or something. I've rarely seen a fight involve more than say 20 in the streets. I'm not sure there are many countries outside of Thailand where you'll run into professional or high level amateurs everywhere and potentially have to fight them.
 
If you train it, it will hurt. Wrist curl 70 lbs each hand for 20 reps, wrist extension 40 lbs each hand for 20 reps, wrist lever and reverse lever 30 lbs (use adjustable DB, load one side) for 20 reps each side, get a gripper (crush grip strengthener) and get up to CoC 1 closed for 20 reps, get a 1.5 closed for 5 reps, work your finger extensions (just kneel and put weight on back of fingers, in claw or "hand around ball" grip, on the ground and use negative reps) and you will have hands that can strike without injury and they will be SOLID. You can really throw a fist that can close up and strike HARD without injury.
If you don't train your hands and wrists like this you cannot put your full power in a punch. I suggest striking something like a tree with a phone book or some layers of carpet nailed to it. Just remove layers of carpet/ phone book pages until you are hitting the tree.
This shit is simple and direct as it can get. Nothing complicated. You will make definite progress and the result is extreme damage. I have recently begun training earnestly but I know that the little grip, hand and knuckle toughening I've done since high school has been a great boon to my punching power. I have read many accounts of men that train simply and diligently and can knock people out and strike hard surfaces without issue.
If you really go hard on the hand training you need to train the hand muscles between fingers. Just clasp your hands together and SQUEEZE. Focus on pinching the hand bones and fingers together) There's a lot of muscles connecting the metacarpal like a zipper.
 
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Sorry but with everything we know about him that is just soo funny. Really had to laugh out loud reading that. TheMaster and showing something. <Lmaoo>
Jumping off with an assumption that MMA gloves make it so you can’t strike with the palm of your hand just seems so wild. As somebody who has to tape hands for fighters professionally I honestly have no idea where he got that.

You’ve had the knuckles, compress and support the metacarpals, And secure the wrist, But in no way does this limit your mobility. It’s not as if you couldn’t do a push-up or some thing because your hands were taped.
 
Jumping off with an assumption that MMA gloves make it so you can’t strike with the palm of your hand just seems so wild. As somebody who has to tape hands for fighters professionally I honestly have no idea where he got that.

You’ve had the knuckles, compress and support the metacarpals, And secure the wrist, But in no way does this limit your mobility. It’s not as if you couldn’t do a push-up or some thing because your hands were taped.
If doesn't make it impossible but it makes it more difficult and energy inefficient as you have to strain against the wraps and gloves a bit to hold the palm upwards if it was your go- to strike.
It wouldn't make sense if you have gone to the trouble of protecting the knuckles and wrist not to throw punches than to hold the hands in palm strike position going against the design and intention of the gloves and wraps.
 
If doesn't make it impossible but it makes it more difficult and energy inefficient as you have to strain against the wraps and gloves a bit to hold the palm upwards if it was your go- to strike.
It wouldn't make sense if you have gone to the trouble of protecting the knuckles and wrist not to throw punches than to hold the hands in palm strike position going against the design and intention of the gloves and wraps.
you don’t strain against the wraps you goof. It’s just athletic tape and gauze, not the shackles of the white mans oppression.
 
I can only think of one instance of a palm strike being so dangerous it was rumored to be an illegal move in public.
When Nic Cage pulled one off in Con Air and got sent to jail
 
you don’t strain against the wraps you goof. It’s just athletic tape and gauze, not the shackles of the white mans oppression.
It renders it more energy inefficient fool and less flexible therefore less likely to be used. Are you disputing this?
Why go to the trouble or wrapping ones hands and knuckles to throw palm strikes anyway?
The point being without gloves palm strikes become more predominant especially for strikes where breaking the hands on the top of someone's head is more likely such as with an overhand.

As for the white man's oppression, maybe its more like Asian mans oppression to shackle mma fighters to force them to throw all those karate kicks, Thai kicks and knees and use those Jiu-Jitsu moves when they just want to have some old fashioned fisticuffs. God help them if they are forced to start using White Tiger Kempo palm strikes as well.
 
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