Overrated ATG’s

[Mr2urbo]

Merely subjective, may or may not agree or may even convince me otherwise

Aaron Pryor: Only notable win beside a washed up Cervantes was against Arguello who was well past his best weight and will always be surrounded by controversy, called our Ray Leonard but never attempted to make the jump to 147 where there was money to be made instead remained in his comfort zone, I can think of a few 140 lbrs that would beat Pryor

Carlos Monzon: If anybody can fill me in on Monzon’s on what makes Monzon an ATG be nice, the only names I recognize on his record are Napoles and Grffith who were old, its no wonder he had the world record for most defenses, he fought nothing but bums.

 

[JayE]

I don't think Pryor's ability was overrated, but his resume isn't anything special. I disagree on Monzon. His resume isn't littered with great MWs, but he beat who there was to beat and a lot of those MWs were good fighters. As a total reign, it's every bit as good as Hopkins', I think (maybe better). He wouldn't be easy to beat h2h, either (Hopkins has claimed that he thinks he'd have a better chance against Hagler and Robinson than Monzon).

 

[Boxiana]

“Alexa, what is an oxymoron?”

 

[Yacob]

I probably should stay out of this one...

 

[Mr2urbo]

“Alexa, what is an oxymoron?”

These are considered by many as ATG’s, how else would you have titled the thread??

 

[Mr2urbo]

I probably should stay out of this one...

I’m so devastated

 

[eternaldarkness]

Monzon's jab was deadly. Watch him hit the bag with it. P4p one of the strongest jabs I have ever seen. I'm not a great fan of monzon's style, to upright for my liking, but the guy was a destroyer.

 

[Boxiana]

These are considered by many as ATG’s, how else would you have titled the thread??

I was just being a dick, but we need a better reference point for who is an ATG than “considered by many”....

 

[deucesarewild]

Merely subjective, may or may not agree or may even convince me otherwise

Aaron Pryor: Only notable win beside a washed up Cervantes was against Arguello who was well past his best weight and will always be surrounded by controversy, called our Ray Leonard but never attempted to make the jump to 147 where there was money to be made instead remained in his comfort zone, I can think of a few 140 lbrs that would beat Pryor

Carlos Monzon: If anybody can fill me in on Monzon’s on what makes Monzon an ATG be nice, the only names I recognize on his record are Napoles and Grffith who were old, its no wonder he had the world record for most defenses, he fought nothing but bums.

People sometimes put so much emphasis on names they forget that a fighter can only fight who is in front of him. Some guys are lucky. They get pretty records because they picked opponents on downslopes of their careers. Others get judged, they fight the best available guy time after time. Sometimes a guy is ducked, then he gets judges for having no one on his record until he slips. Turns out he was never any good. That must be the truth? Brutal. Better off judging the guys that wouldn't fight some of the guns in their division. Others are born and do they best they can. If they have no ducks and they dominate, don't judge. Just don't.

There is NO winning with boxing fans. You know that shitheads mumble about Joe Louis' bum of the month club? He beat 8 HOFers. Eight. Not too many can say that. And his career got interrupted by a fucking world war. But hey, he fought bums. It's all his fault.

Really there are very few people whose record can't be picked over by the dirty hands of the fans. SRR. Greb. Duran are three locks for immunity, but that's still not fair. The internet is the only undefeated entity out there.

Edit: I am ranting, not at you specifically.

 

[Seano]

Rocky Marciano. The guy really has a pretty shallow resume. People will say guys like Holmes and Spinks were not great wins for Tyson but then rate Maciano for beating Charles, Walcott and Moore. All he really has going for him is that he never lost but it'd be about like if Tyson had retired after he beat Holmes.

 

[Seano]

Do people say Pryor is an ATG?

Yes and he is. I wouldn't say he's a P4P great at the top of the all time great list but his run at 140 still stands up to anyone else how has competed at the weight.

 

[Seano]

Merely subjective, may or may not agree or may even convince me otherwise

Aaron Pryor: Only notable win beside a washed up Cervantes was against Arguello who was well past his best weight and will always be surrounded by controversy, called our Ray Leonard but never attempted to make the jump to 147 where there was money to be made instead remained in his comfort zone, I can think of a few 140 lbrs that would beat Pryor

Carlos Monzon: If anybody can fill me in on Monzon’s on what makes Monzon an ATG be nice, the only names I recognize on his record are Napoles and Grffith who were old, its no wonder he had the world record for most defenses, he fought nothing but bums.

I mostly agree on Monzon but Rodrigo Valdez was a pretty good fighter. Not that that name makes his resume special but its a name most don't recognize on his resume that was a legitimate win

 

[eternaldarkness]

People sometimes put so much emphasis on names they forget that a fighter can only fight who is in front of him. Some guys are lucky. They get pretty records because they picked opponents on downslopes of their careers. Others get judged, they fight the best available guy time after time. Sometimes a guy is ducked, then he gets judges for having no one on his record until he slips. Turns out he was never any good. That must be the truth? Brutal. Better off judging the guys that wouldn't fight some of the guns in their division. Others are born and do they best they can. If they have no ducks and they dominate, don't judge. Just don't.

There is NO winning with boxing fans. You know that shitheads mumble about Joe Louis' bum of the month club? He beat 8 HOFers. Eight. Not too many can say that. And his career got interrupted by a fucking world war. But hey, he fought bums. It's all his fault.

Really there are very few people whose record can't be picked over by the dirty hands of the fans. SRR. Greb. Duran are three locks for immunity, but that's still not fair. The internet is the only undefeated entity out there.

Edit: I am ranting, not at you specifically.

Agree completely.

 

[eternaldarkness]

I mostly agree on Monzon but Rodrigo Valdez was a pretty good fighter. Not that that name makes his resume special but its a name most don't recognize on his resume that was a legitimate win

Benvenuti? Mundine? Monzon beat a heap of good fighters.

 

[eternaldarkness]

Rocky Marciano. The guy really has a pretty shallow resume. People will say guys like Holmes and Spinks were not great wins for Tyson but then rate Maciano for beating Charles, Walcott and Moore. All he really has going for him is that he never lost but it'd be about like if Tyson had retired after he beat Holmes.

Fuck off seano. Marciano was a fist fighting god.
Undefeated in a great era of boxing. You can't compare Holmes at that point of his career to Charles or Moore or Walcott, they were still the top of the game.

 

[eternaldarkness]

Rocky Marciano. The guy really has a pretty shallow resume. People will say guys like Holmes and Spinks were not great wins for Tyson but then rate Maciano for beating Charles, Walcott and Moore. All he really has going for him is that he never lost but it'd be about like if Tyson had retired after he beat Holmes.

Canelo is the most overrated fighter of modern times. Gift decisions and bottles up against big punchers.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

Merely subjective, may or may not agree or may even convince me otherwise

Aaron Pryor: Only notable win beside a washed up Cervantes was against Arguello who was well past his best weight and will always be surrounded by controversy, called our Ray Leonard but never attempted to make the jump to 147 where there was money to be made instead remained in his comfort zone, I can think of a few 140 lbrs that would beat Pryor

Carlos Monzon: If anybody can fill me in on Monzon’s on what makes Monzon an ATG be nice, the only names I recognize on his record are Napoles and Grffith who were old, its no wonder he had the world record for most defenses, he fought nothing but bums.

I mean weren't Rodrigo Valdes, Denny Moyer, Tony Licita and Nino Benvenuti all good?

 

[Mr2urbo]

People sometimes put so much emphasis on names they forget that a fighter can only fight who is in front of him. Some guys are lucky. They get pretty records because they picked opponents on downslopes of their careers. Others get judged, they fight the best available guy time after time. Sometimes a guy is ducked, then he gets judges for having no one on his record until he slips. Turns out he was never any good. That must be the truth? Brutal. Better off judging the guys that wouldn't fight some of the guns in their division. Others are born and do they best they can. If they have no ducks and they dominate, don't judge. Just don't.

There is NO winning with boxing fans. You know that shitheads mumble about Joe Louis' bum of the month club? He beat 8 HOFers. Eight. Not too many can say that. And his career got interrupted by a fucking world war. But hey, he fought bums. It's all his fault.

Really there are very few people whose record can't be picked over by the dirty hands of the fans. SRR. Greb. Duran are three locks for immunity, but that's still not fair. The internet is the only undefeated entity out there.

Edit: I am ranting, not at you specifically.

Not to sound like an expert analyst or writer, but what I look for is quality of opposition, skill/talent, and longevity
Guys like Camacho, Wildredo Gomez, and Norris meet those criteria but are hardly mentioned on ATG discussions, Monzon and Pryor had Maurice Blocker type careers and thats not a knock on Blocker as you said, he fought who he had to and made a good career out of it despite not being massively talented. And you also mentioned luck being a part of it is true, Ryan Garcia is a perfect example, I think having the right promoter that cares and invests in you plays a big role too.

Edit: I meant to compare Monzon and Pryor to Simon Brown, not Mairice Blocker

 

[Heath Robinson]

Monzon ruled his division for a prolonged period - undefeated from 1964 to 1977 - and unified, retaining the belts for years until his retirement.

In the opinion of most Monzon is the very epitome of an ATG.

 

[Mr2urbo]

Monzon ruled his division for a prolonged period - undefeated from 1964 to 1977 - and unified, retaining the belts for years until his retirement.

In the opinion of most Monzon is the very epitome of an ATG.

Well you certainly don’t put him above Ward or Jones do you?