Overrated ATG’s

Is Shane Mosley considered an ATG? I always thought he was overrated.
 
Dude has skills no doubt, but if you want to be talk seriously, sometimes he hampers his own work as much as his opponents, with his tactics.
He rarely throws more than one or two shots before holding.
I dont think thats an accurate representation of his career, at all. Were there fights he did it, sure. Also has a couple nasty performances with dirty tactics, but those dont represent the entirety of his career either. We’ve literally seen Ward win by doing it all: Boxing ears off, walking through them, roughing them up, smothering, etc.

I really dont see that not liking a fighters style makes them overrated either. Overrated to me is a weak resume or a resume that can be diminished by circumstances. He doesnt fit that bill imho.
 
Is Shane Mosley considered an ATG? I always thought he was overrated.

Overrated by who? I'd say he's in the p4p top 10 or top 15 of the past 30 years, but not top 5... And that's exactly how most rank him.
 
Which part is bs? All facts.
Calling Lennox Lewis overrated is silly imo .
Lennox avenged his two loses , I realize you address this , but it means something to most ......Lewis had several good victories that you didn’t include....bringing up ducking Byrd and Ruiz is grasping lol .....Few cared about those fights and neither was a threat to beat Lewis

1 . Starched Rudduck ( good win)
2. Beat Bruno ( solid win)
3. Beat Morrison ( solid win )
4. Beat Mercer ( showed grit)
5. Killed Golota worse than anyone
6. Beat aging But still dangerous Holyfield
7. Beat Tua ( solid win
8.beat Old Tyson( not Lewis fault Tyson paid him step aside money to avoid fighting him earlier)
9. Rahman ( solid win )
10. Took Vitali fight on extremely short notice, while “ preparing “ for Kirk Johnson ....old unmotivated Lewis still rearranged Vitali’s face and got a stoppage

Bowe tossed WBC belt in the Garbage to avoid Lewis

Lewis isn’t overrated at all
 
Overrated by who? I'd say he's in the p4p top 10 or top 15 of the past 30 years, but not top 5... And that's exactly how most rank him.
If we're talking past 30 I don't think i'd put him top 10 and not sure of top 15
 
If we're talking past 30 I don't think i'd put him top 10 and not sure of top 15
Floyd
PAC
Holyfield
Lewis
Trinidad
Hopkins
Barrera
Marquez
Ward
Calzaghe
Jones
Canelo
Toney
Lopez

All rate higher off the top of my head ...
 
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Calling Lennox Lewis overrated is silly imo .
Lennox avenged his two loses , I realize you address this , but it means something to most ......Lewis had several good victories that you didn’t include....bringing up ducking Byrd and Ruiz is grasping lol .....Few cared about those fights and neither was a threat to beat Lewis

1 . Starched Rudduck ( good win)
2. Beat Bruno ( solid win)
3. Beat Morrison ( solid win )
4. Beat Mercer ( showed grit)
5. Killed Golota worse than anyone
6. Beat aging But still dangerous Holyfield
7. Beat Tua ( solid win
8.beat Old Tyson( not Lewis fault Tyson paid him step aside money to avoid fighting him earlier)
9. Rahman ( solid win )
10. Took Vitali fight on extremely short notice, while “ preparing “ for Kirk Johnson ....old unmotivated Lewis still rearranged Vitali’s face and got a stoppage

Bowe tossed WBC belt in the Garbage to avoid Lewis

Lewis isn’t overrated at all

You didn't prove anything i said wasnt a fact you just tried to swiftly dismiss them. Its cool, I don't disagree with what you posted here. But I think you have a glass half full look at his losses and wins vs tyson and holyfield while mine is less forgiving. Same for the Vitali fight obviously.

But lets put that aside and those out of the equation. Tua and Mercer are great wins, no doubt. In fact I cant hate on any of them but i don't think that his resume puts him as highly ranked as SOME choose to rank him at atg hw.

Other than that the bowe thing is logically inconsistent. If you say bowe dropped the belt because he wanted no part of Lewis than you have to say that Lewis wanted no part of Ruiz and Byrd, who aren't these bums that history has rewritten them as.
 
You didn't prove anything i said wasnt a fact you just tried to swiftly dismiss them. Its cool, I don't disagree with what you posted here. But I think you have a glass half full look at his losses and wins vs tyson and holyfield while mine is less forgiving. Same for the Vitali fight obviously.

But lets put that aside and those out of the equation. Tua and Mercer are great wins, no doubt. In fact I cant hate on any of them but i don't think that his resume puts him as highly ranked as SOME choose to rank him at atg hw.

Other than that the bowe thing is logically inconsistent. If you say bowe dropped the belt because he wanted no part of Lewis than you have to say that Lewis wanted no part of Ruiz and Byrd, who aren't these bums that history has rewritten them as.
I can’t remember anyone that accused Lewis of ducking Ruiz / Byrd at the time ....They weren’t draws and there wasn’t a bunch of people thirsty for those fights ....Bowe and Lewis had a built in rivalry that needed to be settled.....But Bowes management didn’t want it .... not Lewis fault imo ....Bowe didn’t fight Lewis because he was a huge threat .... Lewis didn’t fight Byrd / Ruiz because Byrd was a spoiler that was tough to look good against , but Lewis would’ve definitely won .....Ruiz just wasn’t very good imo ...did good with what he had ... but nobody saw him as a threat to Lewis
 
I'm surprised Sugar Ray Robinson hasn't been brought up yet. While certainly a historical boxer, I personally don't get why he's at no. 1 on so many lists... People are flexible with 2-20, but the no 1 spot often seems to be reserved for Robinson. I guess many people just see his big numerical record and don't look any deeper to see which opposition was behind it.

He was beatable, and he arguably ducked the Murderers Row,... and while being a great offensive boxer, he wasn't anywhere close to the great defensive boxers in history ... I'd say Duran was a more complete boxer in the sense that he combined offense and defense better... Floyd was slicker than Robinson... And I recall Emanuel Steward saying in an interview that they wouldn't let Robinson fight anyone taller than 5'9.
Robinson's defensive weapons were mostly his feet, comparable to Pacquaio. But Pac boxed a lot of opponents that were on eye-level or taller.

Robinson vs Leonard at 147, Robinson vs Hearns at 154, Robinson vs Hagler / Jones / Hopkins at 160... I wouldn't feel confident picking Robinson in any of those fights.
The Original Murderers Row is the 1918 New York Yankees. The second ensemble of Murderers Row was the 1927 Yankees
 
I'm familiar with the footage. Robinsons defense was his offense. It's got nothing to do with consistency - he simply was no Whitaker or Mayweather or Toney. He had a great chin and power, that's what he relied on.

And Golovkin started to neglect his defense a long time ago... It has nothing to do with age.

Several of his biggest wins were directly attributed to his boxing ability and great feet. He wasn't a defensive fighter on the level of Whitaker or Mayweather (he was obviously quite a bit better at other things than both Whitaker and Mayweather), but to suggest he was an all-out offensive fighter flies in the face of essentially everything written about him during his prime and most of the tape.
 
That would be an amazing fight.
Smothering and staying in Pryor face might be able to shut down his offensive machine. And it’s not like he never got touched
Pryor wasn't afraid of a firefight either

That is a tremendous matchup
 
Several of his biggest wins were directly attributed to his boxing ability and great feet. He wasn't a defensive fighter on the level of Whitaker or Mayweather (he was obviously quite a bit better at other things than both Whitaker and Mayweather), but to suggest he was an all-out offensive fighter flies in the face of essentially everything written about him during his prime and most of the tape.

Maybe you should essentially learn to read. I pointed out his feet and I didn't say he was a low IQ all-out offensive boxer like Angulo.
 
Maybe you should essentially learn to read. I pointed out his feet and I didn't say he was a low IQ all-out offensive boxer like Angulo.

I'm only going off what you typed:

Robinsons defense was his offense.

He had a great chin and power, that's what he relied on.

To say that Robinson's offense was his defense and that he was exceptionally reliant on his chin and power throughout his career is wrong, plain and simple. He certainly fell back on his great chin and power at times and got lazy defensively at times, but he was way more than an all-out offensive fighter with great power and a great chin, which these quotes are suggesting.
 
I'm only going off what you typed:





To say that Robinson's offense was his defense and that he was exceptionally reliant on his chin and power throughout his career is wrong, plain and simple. He certainly fell back on his great chin and power at times and got lazy defensively at times, but he was way more than an all-out offensive fighter with great power and a great chin, which these quotes are suggesting.

Duuuude don't tear everything out of context... Saying that he relied on his power and chin, doesn't suggest that he ONLY relied on his power and chin... Do I have to add everything in each comment? Especially when I already pointed out his footwork, and I already said that other greats had a better defense / offense distrubition?
 
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Duuuude don't tear everything out of context... Saying that he relied on his power and chin, doesn't suggest that he ONLY relied on his power and chin... Do I have to add everything in each comment? Especially when I already pointed out his footwork, and I already said that other greats had a better defense / offense distrubition?

He was known as being one of the better movers of all time, he soundly outboxed numerous all-time greats and he's easily one of the best athletes in the sport's history. Saying, in any context, that his offense was his defense or that he was particularly reliant on his chin and power (when he beyond elite in many other categories) is a ridiculous description of Sugar Ray Robinson.
 
He was known as being one of the better movers of all time, he soundly outboxed numerous all-time greats and he's easily one of the best athletes in the sport's history. Saying, in any context, that his offense was his defense or that he was particularly reliant on his chin and power (when he beyond elite in many other categories) is a ridiculous description of Sugar Ray Robinson.
He was really fast in the limited footage we see him at welterweight. He even did a little bit of clowning, punching only on one foot.
I was not big on Robinson either. In a similar thread in the past, I had a different opinion, but I've come to appreciate him through the years.
 
I mostly agree on Monzon but Rodrigo Valdez was a pretty good fighter. Not that that name makes his resume special but its a name most don't recognize on his resume that was a legitimate win

Shoot Rodrigo Valdez put up one hell of a fight against Carlos Monzon. One of those fights was very competitive

PS: How the hell did you get double yellows?

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Carlos Monzon was so freaking boring to watch. His fights are so tedious and repetitive. I love a good tactician and I love the sweet science aspect of boxing, something about Carlos Monzon’s fights just bored me sooooooo much though. Jab jab straight, jab jab straight, the same combo over and over again. I guess his jab was enough to win him fights though. Not fan friendly at all. And someone like Ali, Holmes, Sugar Ray, I could watch them jab people’s faces off all day. Heck the Andre Ward fights that people called boring were exciting compared to Monzon
 
Honestly I like Bob Foster a lot but his resume is a bit thin
 
Merely subjective, may or may not agree or may even convince me otherwise

Aaron Pryor: Only notable win beside a washed up Cervantes was against Arguello who was well past his best weight and will always be surrounded by controversy, called our Ray Leonard but never attempted to make the jump to 147 where there was money to be made instead remained in his comfort zone, I can think of a few 140 lbrs that would beat Pryor

Carlos Monzon: If anybody can fill me in on Monzon’s on what makes Monzon an ATG be nice, the only names I recognize on his record are Napoles and Grffith who were old, its no wonder he had the world record for most defenses, he fought nothing but bums.
Pryor-999-620x387.jpg

 
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