Philly she'll, thoughts opinions?

[AndyMaBobs]

On the uppercut. Buakaw uses a lot of elbow blocks in front of his face ("diamond guard" or similar stuff) but rarely gets hit flush with an uppercut.

I think it boils down to distance. It is great for blocking long punches like crosses and long hooks / step in hooks. You usually don't have to worry about the uppercut from long range. I think that's the trick.

It's not even distance. You're just fundamentally more protected from an uppercut with a cross guard than you are with a basic guard, because if do it correctly your arm will surround your chin, but people seem to think that you're open for an uppercut because there's a 'hole' in the guard - but don't go for uppercuts in a basic guard where there is literally nothing protecting your chin. It's actually quite funny it's almost like you put a shield up and the other knight goes 'Shield up boys, that means we can stab him now'

 

[Naoya#1]

My younger brother loves it, it makes him look like neo from matrix, haha. But I wouldn't use it against bigger and good guys with a reach adv Lopez vs nata is a good example

 

[Cole train]

fools I helped build his empire over10000 years ago
I was there when he walls fell and we waged an endless room to room combat across a citadel the size of continent.
you think bloods have nothing for me!
I bear the sword of your champion and I desecrate the Aquila with indifference.
what you thought was yours will be taken back by me...
your screams will make the warp boil in ecstasy as we vivesect you and flag the bodies of your serfs.
I pray for he combat for I need a new cloak. the last one made from a Royal family on a hive world was burnt that last time thin bloods tried to take back "their" heirlooms

 

[rmongler]

I find it interesting because of how non-conventional it is, but also because it's pretty similar to a few postures in karate, though I don't for a second think they're supposed to be the shell.

Just curious what the striking forum thinks of it. Who here uses it?

Michigan crab, philly shell, stonewall defense, it's all to say permutations from a crossguard neutral position as noted, which is a signature of some of the oldest boxing traditions that traced their genesis in America.

The best ways to deal with headkicks is 1, no be there, 2, teep, 3, headkick him first, and 4, you are already clinched. If you are thinking about how to use your arms to block headkicks you are already in the wrong ballpark, so one may think about how to use their arms based off of other factors that are more relevant (like the opponent's own use of his arms).

It may sound strange to some ears to put a fighter like Floyd Mayweather in the same stylistic category as fighters like Henry Armstrong or Joe Frazier, but they share that heredity; a keystone of their systems of defense was the covering up of their own attacks through offensive slips into grappling range, taking advantage of their own momentum and stifling the opponent's opportunities for counter attack (even when it is just to break contact with a reposition after a quick shot or two inside right after). It's what you might call the 'secret sauce' that tied everything else they did together, and it's a lack of capacity in this crucial element that most commonly belies the success of many lesser imitators who only see each other trying to be neo in the matrix.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Michigan crab, philly shell, stonewall defense, it's all to say permutations from a crossguard neutral position as noted, which is a signature of some of the oldest boxing traditions that traced their genesis in America.

The best ways to deal with headkicks is 1, no be there, 2, teep, 3, headkick him first, and 4, you are already clinched. If you are thinking about how to use your arms to block headkicks you are already in the wrong ballpark, so one may think about how to use their arms based off of other factors that are more relevant (like the opponent's own use of his arms).

It may sound strange to some ears to put a fighter like Floyd Mayweather in the same stylistic category as fighters like Henry Armstrong or Joe Frazier, but they share that heredity; a keystone of their systems of defense was the covering up of their own attacks through offensive slips into grappling range, taking advantage of their own momentum and stifling the opponent's opportunities for counter attack (even when it is just to break contact with a reposition after a quick shot or two inside right after). It's what you might call the 'secret sauce' that tied everything else they did together, and it's a lack of capacity in this crucial element that most commonly belies the success of many lesser imitators who only see each other trying to be neo in the matrix.

A thousand times this.

 

[RabbitPunch36]

Michigan crab, philly shell, stonewall defense, it's all to say permutations from a crossguard neutral position as noted, which is a signature of some of the oldest boxing traditions that traced their genesis in America.

The best ways to deal with headkicks is 1, no be there, 2, teep, 3, headkick him first, and 4, you are already clinched. If you are thinking about how to use your arms to block headkicks you are already in the wrong ballpark, so one may think about how to use their arms based off of other factors that are more relevant (like the opponent's own use of his arms).

It may sound strange to some ears to put a fighter like Floyd Mayweather in the same stylistic category as fighters like Henry Armstrong or Joe Frazier, but they share that heredity; a keystone of their systems of defense was the covering up of their own attacks through offensive slips into grappling range, taking advantage of their own momentum and stifling the opponent's opportunities for counter attack (even when it is just to break contact with a reposition after a quick shot or two inside right after). It's what you might call the 'secret sauce' that tied everything else they did together, and it's a lack of capacity in this crucial element that most commonly belies the success of many lesser imitators who only see each other trying to be neo in the matrix.

Thats a great explanation of the purpose of those styles. No disrespect to George Foreman but despite learning the crossarm directly from Archie Moore he barely scratched the surface of the potential of the style. He never tied the counter punching and grappling ability offered by the crossarm with the defensive motions like parrying with the arms/elbows and slipping and ducking. I think he might have been too old to master the style.

I also know another reason the lesser imitators struggle with this style is just the simple fact no one can learn another complete system of boxing just through observation. People need well seasoned coaches to teach them the system since there are 1000's of slightly different reactions and moves that need to be taught in response to what the opponent does.

 

[Woldog]

@Freddy Fisticuffs are you still training? Haven't seen a post from you in a while.

 

[Freddy Fisticuffs]

@Freddy Fisticuffs are you still training? Haven't seen a post from you in a while.

Yes actually! and its going great, i found a BJJ gym thats only 30-40 minutes away and there is a really good thai instructor there so ive been able to learn a lot in both of those areas! I also found a small boxing gym that i have been able to visit some. Thanks for asking wol!

 

[Badoldman]

I find myself using the Philly Shell when facing southpaws from my conventional stance. Its not something I consciously decided to do. I found myself shelling up and moving my head to my right when a southpaw advances. Maybe its the lead hand (right hand for southpaws) and its proximity to my head. Especially if that southpaw can throw a jab as opposed to pawing or using their right as a range finder. The double right hook is effective on the Philly Shell. Body-head or the jab to the body and brought up to the head. Probably more so when it provokes a reaction but usually one of the two punches will land cleanly. I've only seen a few fighters who are really good at the Philly Shell. If I'm facing another right hander, I usually have a medium high guard. Its not a conscious decision where I "decide" which guard I'm going to use, its usually a reaction thing. Yeah, I'm not very good at the shell.

 

[SandisLL]

oldest boxing traditions that traced their genesis in America.

Oldest boxing genesis had traceable roots till Shumerian relief approx 3000 years B.C.
America is country of immigrants and boxing they had bought in with immigrants from current europe like Ireland, U.K, France and like this.
Boxing had been in Old Rome befor Christ was born and old Greece.

Only one thing where US was " superior " was commercial side of boxing like 1850 - till late 1980 ies.

Especially if we do know that colonisators in US territory were european immigrants in America.
Not something created in U.S, not at all.

 

[Woldog]

Yes actually! and its going great, i found a BJJ gym thats only 30-40 minutes away and there is a really good thai instructor there so ive been able to learn a lot in both of those areas! I also found a small boxing gym that i have been able to visit some. Thanks for asking wol!

Good to hear

 

[Woldog]

I find myself using the Philly Shell when facing southpaws from my conventional stance. Its not something I consciously decided to do. I found myself shelling up and moving my head to my right when a southpaw advances. Maybe its the lead hand (right hand for southpaws) and its proximity to my head. Especially if that southpaw can throw a jab as opposed to pawing or using their right as a range finder. The double right hook is effective on the Philly Shell. Body-head or the jab to the body and brought up to the head. Probably more so when it provokes a reaction but usually one of the two punches will land cleanly. I've only seen a few fighters who are really good at the Philly Shell. If I'm facing another right hander, I usually have a medium high guard. Its not a conscious decision where I "decide" which guard I'm going to use, its usually a reaction thing. Yeah, I'm not very good at the shell.

I started using the philly shell to protect my liver after I first got dropped with a liver punch lmao it came naturally and felt good and I just kind of used it ever since.

 

[rmongler]

Oldest boxing genesis had traceable roots till Shumerian relief approx 3000 years B.C.
America is country of immigrants and boxing they had bought in with immigrants from current europe like Ireland, U.K, France and like this.
Boxing had been in Old Rome befor Christ was born and old Greece.

Only one thing where US was " superior " was commercial side of boxing like 1850 - till late 1980 ies.

Especially if we do know that colonisators in US territory were european immigrants in America.
Not something created in U.S, not at all.

That's nice and all, but im talking about identifiable trends in stylistic lineages in various countries as they developed in those countries. And the sort of tactical use of clinchwork/infighting as a form of both defense and offense discussed in the post you cut out is an distinctive characteristic of old boxing lineages in the states. An archetypical example would be the meetings between Andre Ward and Sergey Kovalev, stylistic qualities emphasized by both men being emblematic products of some of the finest coaching traditions of their respective nations.

 

[SandisLL]

An archetypical example would be the meetings between Andre Ward and Sergey Kovalev,

Philly shell and peek a bo are U.S specific thing, this yes.
While clinch fight is different thing: it was common thing in europe until after WW2 refs in europe started to fight with clinch work.
There also ofc had played role changes in am boxing scoring and 1960 ies - middle 60 ies, then 70 ies era and this am boxing in 80 ies, modern era am boxing under AIBA and IOC stuff.
More easier observable is long or at least middle range punching.
Clinch fight isn't easily to watch and close range punching too more likely might not been so easy to see like long - middle range punching.

Therefore looks that am rules had changed, then am boxers training ofc is better to do to get them win under these rules.

In pro boxing ofc a lot depends from ref. Clinch? Ref might break this soon if this is not comfortable for A side kid and might not do the same when A side kid benefits from this etc like casual things.

The fact not rare cases more about business not thing that euro boxers can't chinch fight. They even might pay for such training.
The biggest problem is: if our lad cinch fight, it is smart game, if away corner lad: he is dirty boxer etc conclusions.
Officiating too ofc.

While if about philly shell and peek a bo : these are US specific styles.
Not small number of euro boxers did had training in US too.
Relatively big problem for boxers living in europe might be this difference : in US is relatively easily to find sparring partners with not bad philly shell, in europe it is not so easy. Not to talk about boxers with good peek a bo.