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Social Political correctness vs Islamophobia - is there compatibility of Islamic and Western values?

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by TheMaster, Jul 20, 2021.

  1. TheMaster Take The Road To Reality

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    How compatable are Islamic beliefs and values with Western society?

    It seems that there is always either a simplified view of Islamic extremism in the media, or a reactionary 'Islamophobia' labels thrown around but little actual examination of the fundamental tenets of the faith and doctrines they live by.

    So hopefully there can be some civil discourse about these issues from both perspectives.

    An example of gross double standards about this here.
    The ban of religious attire in work places recently by the EU, which was criticized heavily by Erdogen as 'Islamophobic'.

    https://www.rt.com/viral/529526-turkey-eu-headscarf-ruling/

    Yet it seems he does not want to apply anything like the same standards of criticism to muslim communities both at home and abroad and any legal systems they try to enforce.

    A Czeck politition had given a strongly phrased talk on it but in my view she is basically accurate in the description of the fundamental issues here and why there will always be some conflict, worth reading.

    https://motls.blogspot.com/2016/05/klara-samkovas-talk-should-we-be-afraid.html?m=1


    Some soundbites

    "Islam....is primarily a totalitarian system of governance in which God only plays a substitutive role because the main content of Islam is nothing else than the arrangement of the state matters. As opposed to Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, or Shintoism, the heart of Islam is the law, namely the Islamic Sharia law."

    "It wants to be protected according to our tradition which it exploits in this way, while it is not willing to behave reciprocally."

    "From the viewpoint of Islam, the concept of religion as a private, intimate matter of an individual is absolutely unacceptable...Islam rejects the individual conception of faith in God and in a totalitarian way, it forbids all doubts about itself."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

    https://exmuslims.org/

    For example in Saudi Arabia religious freedom is almost non existent.

    "the public practice of any other religion than Islam is illegal and even private worship is severely restricted. Mosques are the only public places of worship and the construction of non-Muslim places of worship is outlawed. Non-citizens are required to carry identity cards, which classify them into “Muslims” and “non-Muslims” and non-citizens applying for naturalisation must convert to Islam prior to the procedure."

    http://www.hscentre.org/middle-east-and-north-africa/saudi-arabia-affront-religious-freedom/

    So we have a well know Muslim leader calling an EU ruling 'fascist' simply because they block the overt display of any religious attire like the veil in workplaces. Yet he will keep his mouth totally shut regarding religious persecution and lack of rights of atheists and non Muslims in Muslim nation's which would by the same standard be far far worse.

    We find similar repression of non muslims in many Muslim countries, and total silence about this from those who throw the Islamaphobia label around.

    https://www.state.gov/reports/2018-report-on-international-religious-freedom/morocco/

    So to what degree can Islam ever be truly reconciled with Western secular values? And can these same standards be applied all around when evaluating these issues?
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
  2. uppercutbus Gold Belt

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    Quite a few examples from Europe, (esp France) of a incompatible culture clash and the inevitable push to assert dominance. That's what happens with the numbers grow. Not much else left to say, we know how muslim countries operate when they make the laws.

    They let muslims in the UK drive full burka, but anyone else isn't allowed to wear a face covering whilst driving. Soft touch on grooming gangs, almost complicit. They can do something if they wanted to, France put their foot down defending the Burka ban (twice) also EU said employers are entitled to ban workers from wearing headscarves.
     
  3. Fox by the Sea Lighthouse Keeper Platinum Member

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    in europe, i don't see it happening. if for some reason starting tomorrow any EU country would become majority muslim, it will not improve the country, it will make it worse.
     
  4. phoenixikki Black Belt

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    The funny thing is that Muslims didn't even ask for the lefties to bat for their side. Helps them they get their support though as the perpetual oppressed religion of peace.

    Islam condemns terrorism and the murder of innocent people, but the most important fact is always left out of the discussion: Jihad isn't "terrorism" and infidels aren't "innocent." Similarly, Islam can condemn rape while leaving out the most important fact: but it's not rape if it's with an infidel. People think that only extremist groups or a small minority in Islam have these opinions, but Rotherham/Sweden/Germany etc show this to be widespread. The apologists think they can continuously side-step it by repeating #NotRealIslam. Governments which adopt Islam as law of the land and interpret their faith as they see fit "doesn't count" apparently.

    Lefties see what is right in front of them yet they cannot help but make excuses for it because it contradicts their perception of reality.
     
  5. PrinceOfPain Gold Belt

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    We're coming to a point where I don't think any genuine spiritual/moral foundation or philosophy of conviction is compatible with the West.
    Much like Christianity, Islam can stay as long as it stops being what it is.

    I'm not at all pro-Islam. But many of its adherents have undeniable conviction. And the West is not the place for people of strong conviction.
     
  6. Ramon Antonio Black Belt

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    Islam is wholly incompatible. Muslims can fit in if they don't take their book too seriously or cherry pick what they believe in (like Christians and Jews do).
     
  7. Hellowhosthat Steel Belt

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    I don't think any religion is really compatible with modern western life if one were to follow that religion to a tee, tbh.
     
  8. Koro_11 Gold Belt

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    Both political correctness and Islam are incompatible in not only the west but in a sane world period. The bizarre marriage between the PC types and Islam joining forces to battle the white Christian devil is bound to drive itself off a cliff.

    People need freedom of speech, and people need to be able to say the truth, and this attitude that this ideology is somehow off limits when it comes to criticism, and the PC thing to do is look the other way as say something dumb like “different cultures hard to judge” is ludicrous.

    People who throw out accusations such as racism or “Islamophobia” whenever someone questions or makes legit criticism of an idea, need to go. It needs to get to the point where these types of accusations are cut down instantly to the point where the false accusations are as undesirable as racism itself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
  9. Rygu R.I.P. Obie Platinum Member

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    Sharia Law has no place in the western world.

    The irony of progressives being pro islam and pro women's rights simultaneously is lack of dissonance on a cosmic level.
     
  10. Natural Order Cosmic Alpha

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    Islam is the literal antithesis to the social metanarratives being endorsed in the West today. Progressives will use Islam as an equal rights talking point when it suits their moral position. Policy wise these people are fucking hooped though.

    Compatible, lol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
  11. SammyPops Steel Belt

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    True believers of any religion are not compatible with Western culture.

    For example, the King James bible allows one to take the child of a defeated enemy as a slave.
     
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  12. Ophydian Silver Belt

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    Did I just get teleported back to 2015?
     
  13. Alphafail Black Belt

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    They're eerie similar to a lot of christian churches in the US.
     
  14. Papi Chulo Brown Belt

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    The Politically Correct Left are Marxists. The goal is to destroy free Western cultures. Opening the borders to bring in lots of Muslims helps them to replace the freedoms and traditional Christian culture that the Left wants to subvert.
     
    phoenixikki likes this.
  15. Rygu R.I.P. Obie Platinum Member

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    But at the same time they're trying to destroy the traditional family and make up a bunch of genders, 2 games of which Muslims do not play.
     
  16. dirtypablo Black Belt

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    Liberals would have zero problems being honest about islam if the majority of its practitioners were white.
     
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  17. Ophydian Silver Belt

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    This makes total sense. Bring in a different religion because the previous is too difficult to destroy. It would be easier to destroy religion than to replace one with the other.
     
  18. panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Now that's a point worth unpacking but I don't know how many serious responses you're going to get.

    I'm going to largely agree with you though. One of the increasing tenets of Western values these days is a rejection of strong moral/religious beliefs in others. Almost like we've reached a point where we want other people to be hedonistic while insisting that we must have strong moral foundations. Not a perfect description but I think you can get what I'm saying.

    Considering the foundational parallels between Judaism, Christianity and Islam, Islam should be quite compatible with Western values. But it's not and I suspect the primary reason is because they have very strong convictions about the tenets of their faith while, as you said, Christianity and Judaism have watered theirs down to varying degrees.
     
  19. blaseblah Titanium Belt

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    A fundamental value of American society is freedom of religion. You can point to countries like Saudi Arabia restricting religious freedom but that doesn't change what we should do here.
     
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  20. phoenixikki Black Belt

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    Their method has not changed. Divide and conquer my friend. Think about the Dems. They want more illegal Latinos coming in not because they are generally more conservative and Catholic but because first they will vote democrat hoping to stay and second they will bring more people over.
    The same applies to Western Europe.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
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