Prime JDS vs DC

[Claude]

sloppy?? Cormier had one of the best defensive awareness around lol. And he always faced much better strikers than Cain ever did. Cain was better at entering the clinch, and his insane cardio made him unstoppable when he got there but he wasn't a better striker than Cormier in both offense and defense.

Weird thing to say about someone who ate so many shots per fight, got hurt so often and who was completely clueless on how to defend body shots.

Can't recall Cain getting abused by one single strike repeatedly.

 

[pick999]

Jds by tko.

 

[DS7]

Weird thing to say about someone who ate so many shots per fight, got hurt so often and who was completely clueless on how to defend body shots.

Can't recall Cain getting abused by one single strike repeatedly.

Cormier got hit clean once by Prime Rumble with a overhand right and a head kick exiting the clinch. He got hurt against Gustafsson in the clinch and Jon Jones is arguably the best fighter this world has seen its no shame to get caught by the level of competition i just said

Cain got knocked down like 4 times by a wrestler in Cheick Kongo and got one punched by JDS.

 

[MisterWillis]

DC fairly easily for me.

 

[Claude]

Cormier got hit clean once by Prime Rumble with a overhand right and a head kick exiting the clinch. He got hurt against Gustafsson in the clinch and Jon Jones is arguably the best fighter this world has seen its no shame to get caught by the level of competition i just said

Cain got knocked down like 4 times by a wrestler in Cheick Kongo and got one punched by JDS.

Don't forget about unranked past prime Anderson making him squeal in the very few seconds they traded shots.

Mir also hurt him with body shots. Barnett as well iirc.

And of course Stipe.

That's already 7 fighters.

DC was though. Probably had a better chin than Cain, but he was horrible at avoiding punches. Really horrible.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Is? No.

Was, in his prime? Yes.

I don't agree with that. I think their striking defense in their primes was very similar and if I had to give an edge it would be to DC.

 

[Claude]

I don't agree with that. I think their striking defense in their primes was very similar and if I had to give an edge it would be to DC.

I don't think they were.

DC literally leaned towards strikes. He did that vs. Jones (which got him KO'd), Rumble (almost got his head knocked off), Barnett. It's a horrible habit he had. Cain made mistakes but they were nothing like that.

He didn't care to defend leg kicks.

Body shots, he ate them like Popeye's chicken wings.

He was hurt by Jones, Stipe, Mir, Anderson, Gus, AJ, Bartnett.

He ate 400 shots in his last 2 fights alone. Sure Stipe is a good offensive striker, but he was comparable to a prime JDS (actually lost to a past prime Junior), and JDS didn't land nearly as many punches on Cain, albeit the KO loss (which DC also suffered).

To me there's no comparison. But to each their own.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I don't think they were.

DC literally leaned towards strikes. He did that vs. Jones (which got him KO'd), Rumble (almost got his head knocked off), Barnett. It's a horrible habit he had. Cain made mistakes but they were nothing like that.

He didn't care to defend leg kicks.

Body shots, he ate them like Popeye's chicken wings.

He was hurt by Jones, Stipe, Mir, Anderson, Gus, AJ, Bartnett.

He ate 400 shots in his last 2 fights alone. Sure Stipe is a good offensive striker, but he was comparable to a prime JDS (actually lost to a past prime Junior), and JDS didn't land nearly as many punches on Cain, albeit the KO loss (which DC also suffered).

To me there's no comparison. But to each their own.

DC is susceptible to head kicks and body shots but his head movement is much better than Cain's and he generally didn't get rocked as much in his prime. Cain leaves his chin out there often and it got him badly rocked by Kongo, picked apart by Werdum and KOed by JDS.

We are also talking about these guys in their primes so I don't think DC's last two fights should count. Stipe also improved since the first JDS fight so I don't think that's a fair comparison since DC fought a much better Stipe than the one that fought JDS the first time.

I do agree that DC's defense against body shots and head kicks is worse than Cain's but Cain's defense when it comes to head shots in general is worse and IMO that is more important because strikes to the head matter more in MMA and most head shots are punches.

 

[iDisagree]

DC's striking defense is too sloppy to compete with a prime Junior.

Lol this is nonsense. Prime Junior was getting beat up by old ass post Gonzaga KO loss Cro Cop who at that point of his career wasn't better than Prime DC.

 

[iDisagree]

Current DC would lose to a prime JDS who was on gear until USADA came around.

Prime DC would kick the shit out of prime JDS, especially in the clinch where JDS has looked very vulnerable against Cain.

I also think DCs hands were faster than Cain's and he would make JDS pay for his sloppy defense where he gets scared and backs up in a straight line and blocks punches with his face.

 

[Claude]

DC is susceptible to head kicks and body shots but his head movement is much better than Cain's and he generally didn't get rocked as much in his prime. Cain leaves his chin out there often and it got him badly rocked by Kongo, picked apart by Werdum and KOed by JDS.

We are also talking about these guys in their primes so I don't think DC's last two fights should count. Stipe also improved since the first JDS fight so I don't think that's a fair comparison since DC fought a much better Stipe than the one that fought JDS the first time.

That's only 3 fighters vs. at least 7 that hurt DC.

Cain got dropped by:

-Kongo
-JDS
-Werdum

DC got dropped by:

-Rumble
-Gus
-Jones
-Stipe (2 fights)

And hurt by body shots by:

-Anderson
-Barnett
-Mir
-Stipe

I don't see any basis to say he had a better defense than Cain. Plus there's his horrible habit of leaning towards kicks/knees:

Cain did nothing like that.

I think DC was in a much better form when he fought Stipe than Cain when he fought Werdum or JDS, as he was coming off injury/surgery and over a year of inactivity in both fights.

DC got dropped in a similar way as a rusty Cain vs. JDS.

 

[Claude]

Lol this is nonsense. Prime Junior was getting beat up by old ass post Gonzaga KO loss Cro Cop who at that point of his career wasn't better than Prime DC.

How does that make DC's striking defense any better?

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

That's only 3 fighters vs. at least 7 that hurt DC.

Cain got dropped by:

-Kongo
-JDS
-Werdum

DC got dropped by:

-Rumble
-Gus
-Jones
-Stipe (2 fights)

And hurt by body shots by:

-Anderson
-Barnett
-Mir
-Stipe

I don't see any basis to say he had a better defense than Cain. Plus there's his horrible habit of leaning towards kicks/knees:

Cain did nothing like that.

I think DC was in a much better form when he fought Stipe than Cain when he fought Werdum or JDS, as he was coming off injury/surgery and over a year of inactivity in both fights.

DC got dropped in a similar way as a rusty Cain vs. JDS.

I already said I was comparing prime vs prime and that I don't think DC was in his prime in his last two fights and that Jones was on PEDs. I would also argue DC's level of competition is higher than Cain's and DC also fought more high level strikers. Barnett didn't hurt DC either like you claim and I don't remember Mir hurting him though I haven't re-watched DC vs Mir.

DC fought a lot more than Cain and that is a factor, in Cain's 17 fights he got rocked with punches 4 times, in DC's first 17 fights he got rocked by punches 1 time.

 

[alex.hb]

DC 2019 ( Prime HW DC ) would smash Prime JDS in 1 or 5 rounds !

 

[moreorless87]

I don't think Cain was any faster, I do agree his cardio was better and he was better at striking his way into the clinch. I still think it would be enough to beat JDS though as his clinch game is below average and he's really bad about getting stuck on the cage(reminds me of Alves).

On his feet? Cain was definately alot faster and more agile IMHO.

 

[Claude]

I already said I was comparing prime vs prime and that I don't think DC was in his prime in his last two fights and that Jones was on PEDs. I would also argue DC's level of competition is higher than Cain's and DC also fought more high level strikers. Barnett didn't hurt DC either like you claim and I don't remember Mir hurting him though I haven't re-watched DC vs Mir.

DC fought a lot more than Cain and that is a factor, in Cain's 17 fights he got rocked with punches 4 times, in DC's first 17 fights he got rocked by punches 1 time.

Seems to me like you're making a lot of excuses for DC.

I don't think Cain was at his best vs. Werdum or JDS 1. But you still count them. So why not count DC's fights when he was champion and #1 contender?

I don't think AJ, Gus, Mir and Anderson were better and more dangerous than JDS.
Bigfoot was also pretty dangerous. Werdum too.

Kinda cherry picking there with the first 17 fights. Getting rocked also depends on your chin and I believe DC had a better chin than Cain. Plus body shots count too. You can't give DC a pass for them.

He seemed to be hurt by a body shot vs. Barnett. Not saying he was in big trouble, but he was hurt.

Vs. Mir:

 

[Claude]

Cain simply didn't have such glaring weaknesess when it comes to striking.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

On his feet? Cain was definately alot faster and more agile IMHO.

I think DC had faster hands in his prime than Cain, i'm not sure what you mean other than Cain closing the distance to the clinch faster, he never had really great footwork or anything.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Seems to me like you're making a lot of excuses for DC.

I don't think Cain was at his best vs. Werdum or JDS 1. But you still count them. So why not count DC's fights when he was champion and #1 contender?

I don't think AJ, Gus, Mir and Anderson were better and more dangerous than JDS.
Bigfoot was also pretty dangerous. Werdum too.

Kinda cherry picking there with the first 17 fights. Getting rocked also depends on your chin and I believe DC had a better chin than Cain. Plus body shots count too. You can't give DC a pass for them.

He seemed to be hurt by a body shot vs. Barnett. Not saying he was in big trouble, but he was hurt.

Vs. Mir:

I'm not making excuses for DC, you can't say only Prime Cain fights count but non prime DC fights do. That's a disingenuous argument when the thread is about fighters in their primes.

Those are good body shots but I don't see that as being hurt really, he's nowhere near in any danger of being finished.

 

[Claude]

I'm not making excuses for DC, you can't say only Prime Cain fights count but non prime DC fights do. That's a disingenuous argument when the thread is about fighters in their primes.

Those are good body shots but I don't see that as being hurt really, he's nowhere near in any danger of being finished.

Prime is somewhat subjective. There are indicators but it's not an exact science. I don't think there's any reason no to count DC's fights vs. Stipe. Specially their second fight.

Anyway, you can remove those 2 Stipe losses, and DC still was hurt by strikes in at least in 6 fights, which is more than Cain was.
If you add the Stipe fights then it's 8 fights.

Being hurt doesn't necessarily mean you're in danger of being finished. Anderson made DC squeal, but he wasn't close to finishing the fight.