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Primo Carnera would have beaten Ngannou in a standup fight

Discussion in 'Fantasy Matchup Discussion' started by pankrat, Mar 29, 2021.

  1. Ironnik94 Silver Belt

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    @pankrat while i think that Carneira would have beaten Ngannou in a fight where grappling and kicks aren't allowed and where they both were boxing gloves, i'm less inclined to believe he'd be the favorite if it was a kickboxing match and even less if they'd have worn MMA gloves.

    Plus Ngannou - despite not having the cleanest form - has a very good eye for a counter.

    Cool to see someone bringing up Carneira though, i don't know how good he was exactly for a boxer, but he's a phenomenal example for someone who's ridiculously big while being fairly lean who's not on steroids.
    Because having a gigantic skeletal frame (and this includes bone circumference) is a thing after all, despite many people telling themselves that guys that size just have to be on something.
     
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  2. gspieler Silver Belt

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    Sharkey, and a bunch of dudes without Wiki pages.

    Also, Baer was barely above 6’.

    Also, I think it’s a pretty safe bet that other smaller, high-level boxers from that era that he never fought, eg Schmeling, Tunney, Braddock, etc would put on a clinic against a giant with a modest skillset(no disrespect to Primo, though).
     
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  3. pankrat Black Belt

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    Primo also KTFO Sharkey to became champ.
    It's not true that he was schooled by "a bunch of nobodies". Definitely not during his prime in the early 30s.

    Max Baer is listed as 6′ 2½″

    I agree that Primo enjoyed favourable match making for being such a draw for his time, and there were definitely top HW boxers who would have been favoured to beat him. Not that many though, and those few would also school a guy as Ngannou or any other big boy in MMA imo
     
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  4. Paolo Delutis Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    I was just saying...

    Good to know though ..

    Pretty interesting seeing those old fight clips...

    Somethings have changed so much...other things stayed exactly the same
     
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  5. gspieler Silver Belt

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    IIRC, Sharkey took a lot of shit for losing that fight. Regardless, Primo was not really considered elite, even in his prime, and even in spite of having been a world champ. The perception was always that he was a slow, plodding, giant, who was dangerous mostly because of his size, but would usually fall short against the cream of the crop. Correct me if I’m on wrong, though.

    How he would fare against Francis is another discussion altogether, though. At that point you have to consider intergenerational as well as intersport, factors.
     
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  6. TheGreatA Gold Belt

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    Carnera beat the hell out of other big guys of his era. Boxing training for big guys was pretty awful in those days, and Carnera was probably the best of the bunch. He did have some fundamentals like a decent jab, some footwork and an ability to parry punches. His uppercut was a legit punch.



    MMA boxing is actually pretty similar to old school boxing because of the small gloves and limited ability to block punches. A lot of the work was done in the clinches too, just like in MMA.

    Carnera doesn't really get the credit he deserves for a guy who was treated as a circus act, never really properly trained, yet he picked up boxing fundamentals pretty well, and did look like a legitimate pugilist in his prime. He fought like 20 times a year which puts modern heavyweights to shame.

    I feel like he created a template of success in boxing for the super heavyweights that followed him, before that there was never really a "style" to emulate after, for the big guys, which is why they were often dismissed as freaks/circus acts. His use of the jab, clinching on the inside, using the uppercut to punish smaller guys, among other things that he did, were all adopted by later super heavies to great success.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
  7. gspieler Silver Belt

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    Francis is the Wilder of mma.
     
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  8. HardasNAILZ Black Belt

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    He’s not even that good.
     
  9. Lemmy Caution Brown Belt

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    Facts don't care about your feelings.

    The myth of the ‘Nazi steroid’ has persisted over the past four decades in the absence of any reliable evidence to support it. This essay traces the myth back to a short article that appeared in the respectable American journal Science. Our examination of the paper trail suggests that the myth was started by a rumour that the Science journalist converted into a hypothesis. Two factors account for the impressive career of this fantasy. First, it is striking how many writers were willing to transmit this claim to their readers in an uncritical manner on the undocumented assumption that it was a plausible idea. The second factor is how the world has imagined the Nazi regime. It has been credited with the capacity to commit virtually any perverse act, no matter how improbable or bizarre it may seem. In the last analysis, the myth of the ‘Nazi steroid’ confirms once again a widespread fascination with the Nazis that includes a masculine megalomania that is best represented by the legendary sadism of the Nazi criminal regime. It is, therefore, no accident that the ‘male hormone’ and its reputation as a catalyser of male aggression have become a symbol of the Nazi ethos.
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262882560_The_Myth_of_the_Nazi_Steroid
     
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  10. Blake_UK Orange Belt

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    Primo Carnera was notoriuosly not that good and benefited from fights fixed by his mafia sponsors.
     
  11. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    You think he was better than Buddy Baer? As far as him versus other big men, I would have to watch it again but I thought George Godfrey was basically beating him before he was DQ'd. My recollection is that, even if you gave the edge to Carnera, it was at best a competitive fight with Godfrey. But my memory could be off. Only watched it one time.
     
  12. TheGreatA Gold Belt

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    Buddy came a little after his time. And he never really fought like a big man, he was basically just a huge guy who fought on the inside and in the clinches. I think Carnera would have busted him up, to be honest. Buddy was more of a "freakshow" than Carnera was, a late starter who was given all the opportunities because of his brother and his size. Carnera did beat some legit guys to make his way to the top, while Baer only fought a couple of guys that could qualify as contenders during the era.

    Godfrey may have been better but it's impossible to say because black fighters in that era didn't really get a fair shake. He had a massive amount of DQs which either indicates that he was nuts, or he was throwing fights.
     
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  13. Paolo Delutis Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    Your a goof
    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/more-sports/2008/03/11/steroid-timeline


    Germans made anabolic steroids 5 years before the war...no doubt it was used on there soldiers lol..why wouldn't you...the SS soldiers were known for being fierce fighters who could fight and march for hours non stop....
     
  14. ShorterThanLeprechauns Orange Belt

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    Nice prediction hahaha

     
  15. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    Godfrey could have been getting screwed over by referees as well. I'm going to have to watch Carnera-Godfrey again. I guess most people had him clearly winning. Godfrey has some impressive accomplishments; Canadian heavyweight champion, IBU champion, Colored heavyweight champion...and Jeff Blackburn as a trainer for at least some of his career.
     
  16. Lemmy Caution Brown Belt

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  17. Paolo Delutis Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    There you go ...going full tard again
     
  18. gspieler Silver Belt

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    Francis is the Wilder of mma.
     
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  19. Lemmy Caution Brown Belt

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    You link to a page that says:

    "1940-45 According to anecdotal accounts, the Nazis test anabolic steroids on prisoners, Gestapos and Hitler himself. Testosterone and its analogs are used by German soldiers to promote aggressiveness and physical strength. Retrospectively, according to his physician, Hitler's mental state toward the end of his life exhibits characteristics that some scientists associate with heavy steroid use: mania, acute paranoid psychoses, overly aggressive and violent behavior, depression and suicidal ideologies.

    I linked to a scholarly paper that disproved those anecdotes.

    You display what's known as confirmation bias.

    "Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.[1] People display this bias when they select information that supports their views, ignoring contrary information, or when they interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing attitudes. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs. Confirmation bias cannot be eliminated entirely, but it can be managed, for example, by education and training in critical thinking skills."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

    You have more here: The Spectre of Steroids: Nazi Propaganda, Cold War Anxiety and Patriarchal Paternalism

    "Nazi steroids" and "USSR steroids" were the result of Western anxiety. Nazis bad, therefore steroids. US weightlifters began to use synthetic steroids in the mid-1950s and they spread quickly to other strength sports, but it became all about the scary Russians.

    The Nazis did supply drugs to their soldiers. Benzedrine. The British soldiers were given amphetamines. Perhaps other drugs as well, but they were all about mental stress. The driver of the Marder mini sub was given Benzedrine, because it was considered extremely stressful for a single individual to stay submerged in the ocean for a long time.
     
  20. Ultra O’Dia Black Belt

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    he didnt happen to kill a village of Charlies after his platoon deserted him in the jungles of Da Nang with nothing but a bowie knife, an ak47 and a bottle of Jack Daniels, did he?
     
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