Question/Advice regarding a Grant Warning I Got

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destroyer4147

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I'm opening this Thread on behalf a friend and fellow boxing fan. He had an interesting case receiving a warning contact by Grant.
He should post more details in the following posts...
 
Thanks @destroyer4147 ! :)

Hi everyone

Perhaps some of you may have seen me around this forum. I'm a promoter and distributor of several Mexican boxing brands.

I would like to ask your advise or if you've got perhaps the knowledge of the following situation I've faced with Grant.

I normally list on eBay some of the gloves I have for sale. And it happens to be that I've received a notification message from Grant warning me about having gloves for sale having a triple stripe thumb, which they mention they own the patent rights for this, and I should remove / stop selling any of these or their attorneys would get into this.

I wanted to ask you, in case any of you may know more regarding the Boxing patents, do you know if this may be true? I've tried searching in google for Grant patents, and I was able to find some, but none mentioning the triple stripe thumb.

In my ignorance of Boxing glove patents, I just don't think that a glove design in terms of the segmented colors, could be patented and just being own by a single brand. Was wondering if perhaps you could have some more experience on this?

Does anyone got any advice or experience in the Boxing Gloves patents and have ever been able to find the documentation for these Triple Stripe thumb?

You may find below screenshots of the message received by them.
upload_2021-4-6_16-5-57.png

upload_2021-4-6_16-6-26.png

upload_2021-4-6_16-6-50.png

Thanks to you all for reading this.
 
I've heard something similar on this before, that Grant has some sort of patent on the triple thumb. However, I am not sure of the validity of this claim by Grant.

https://patents.justia.com/inventor/grant-elvis-phillips

Also, I believe that I heard somewhere that Grant tried to do this with an LA based brand, Fight2Finish.

https://www.fight2finish.com/product-category/boxing-gloves/

They're still selling these gloves. Also, shouldn't that claim be made against the manufacturer? Would this hold up against distributors?
 
I've read up a bit and think I know what's happening here. First, I'm not a lawyer so take this for what it is.

Looks like you were contacted by what is likely Grant (but not confirmed as far as I can tell) through eBay to ask you to stop selling stuff that looks like their stuff. They haven't provided any direct proof that a patent was infringed, but as far as I can tell, they don't really have to. But they are hoping you will go on their word, and otherwise have said they would get their lawyer involved.

Generally, the purpose of a contact like this is to simply get you to stop doing what you're doing. If I was a lawyer, the easiest way to do this would be to probably show you the patent. Then you can decide if you agree it's an infringement, and stop selling the product. I think you have asked for something perfectly reasonable in the filed patent, which has not been responded to. (There is no such thing as a "worldwide patent" but the US has a searchable database of patents from 1976. I looked really briefly and found a bunch of boxing glove stuff, but nothing about the 3 striped thumb, but I would guess it probably exists.)

I have added a link to a very good article about patent infringement and how it works and penalties, etc. It's a few years old and specific to the US, but I think paints a decent general picture of what you are dealing with and that you probably don't have much to panic about.

Patent Infringement: It's More Common than You Think | IndustryWeek

The question then becomes if you are ACTUALLY infringing on the patent. If you say no and keep selling, they will will have to sit down and consider if stopping you is worth the effort, because everything costs money. You then have to sit down and consider if it's worth you fighting them, as defending a lawsuit also costs money.

I doubt you will see them go from eBay message to massive lawsuit in one go unless it's super obvious you are selling Grant knockoffs and making really large coin off of it (in which case you should definitely stop).

Personally I would keep selling until I get something a bit more concrete than an eBay message that doesn't reply to you. I wouldn't even reach out to them again at this point unless they reply.

The only wildcard here for me is that you both seem to be situated in Mexico and I'm not sure how things work down there. But that's my two cents. Hope it helps.
 
This is crazy, but I wouldn't underestimate Grant. Unlike the case with Dinardo threatening the Korean YouTube Channel that cut open his glove, a company selling their gloves at those overprice rates for this long probably has the money to mess with you for something as simple as this.

So I wouldn't take this lightly.
 
KidMoe said:
This is crazy, but I wouldn't underestimate Grant. Unlike the case with Dinardo threatening the Korean YouTube Channel that cut open his glove, a company selling their gloves at those overprice rates for this long probably has the money to mess with you for something as simple as this.

So I wouldn't take this lightly.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't take it lightly? What exactly do you think happens to people for patent infringement?
 
Mark6pro said:
Wouldn't take it lightly? What exactly do you think happens to people for patent infringement?
Click to expand...
Mark6Pro, if you think I mean the lines that they'll foreclose your house, you have it all wrong.
I meant it for Edgar's eBay account which since he sells multiple brands thru there and just starting a reputation (not going to post his account up here for privacy purposes). They'll make eBay to close every auction that they infringes their claim and try to take down the account that he spent time to build up. If you ever try selling even real Ray Bans on there with the Ray Ban Logo in your picture (not on the product) or put the term "tank watch" in your eBay title that is not a Cartier, you'll know. They hire a shitload of people that query and search for auctions like this, that's why they found those gloves in the first place. If you ignore them (taking them lightly), they'll keep coming after your auctions and make it impossible for you to continue selling, especially if you're just building your eBay reputation on there.
 
KidMoe said:
Mark6Pro, if you think I mean the lines that they'll foreclose your house, you have it all wrong.
I meant it for Edgar's eBay account which since he sells multiple brands thru there and just starting a reputation (not going to post his account up here for privacy purposes). They'll make eBay to close every auction that they infringes their claim and try to take down the account that he spent time to build up. If you ever try selling even real Ray Bans on there with the Ray Ban Logo in your picture (not on the product) or put the term "tank watch" in your eBay title that is not a Cartier, you'll know. They hire a shitload of people that query and search for auctions like this, that's why they found those gloves in the first place. If you ignore them (taking them lightly), they'll keep coming after your auctions and make it impossible for you to continue selling, especially if you're just building your eBay reputation on there.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. I did look up the "grantworldwide" seller, and looks like they haven't actually sold anything on eBay for years. Probably just there as a police presence of sorts.

Still, so they appeal to eBay and make a case that the offending gloves be de-listed, and you cant sell them anymore. Or you can do it yourself. Personally I wouldn't do their work for them. No idea what Edgar's scale is, but they can't take your house if you made $1000 off their patent.

Still, you give good cautious advice.
 
Mark6pro said:
Makes sense. I did look up the "grantworldwide" seller, and looks like they haven't actually sold anything on eBay for years. Probably just there as a police presence of sorts.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Grant won't kill or bankrupt Edgar over this, but will make selling gloves on eBay a pain in the ass. I'm not sure how much Edgar has invested in selling gloves on eBay... You know some people do it for just some extra pocket money but some make eBay a major part of their income. That and I'm not sure how much eBay Feedback Rating he has, if he's those that have 1000+ but have their accounts frozen or closed because of Grant's complains to eBay, it's not going to be a good thing since it takes forever to build up a good Seller Rep.

Hopefully this whole thing won't affect him that much.
 
Hey guys

Appreciate the time and effort on you all going through this and sharing your thoughts. Always helpful to hear different perspectives. @makedansure @Mark6pro @KidMoe .

Well, this whole boxing project thing is not something I yet make margin profit of, it is not what I feed my family or live from. It basically pays off the expenses as of now, but eBay have been one of the main selling channels. Anyway, my eBay account isn't that big deal, may have about 30~ transactions along 2 years ago that I created it. Which still, I wouldn't like to loose.

In other words, I mainly do this because I love boxing, having my room full of different boxing gear and raising these Mexican brands to the outside world of Mexico.

My worry on this topic is more on trying to understand if I'm really going against their patent - which I wouldn't like doing - or they may just be trying to apply their power. I'm not offering replicas or fake Grant gloves, what I'm offering is other Mexican workshop brands with variated colors designs, where some have the 3 stripes.

Appreciate Grant gloves patent may include specific requirements on the whole making of glove and not only its triple colors design. What doesn't make sense to me, is that other Mexican gloves made by other workshops as they've always been done in their own style, should not be allowed to produce/ commercialize triple stripe thumb/ cuff colors design.

Thanks,
Edgar
 
Edgar Martinez said:
Hey guys

Appreciate the time and effort on you all going through this and sharing your thoughts. Always helpful to hear different perspectives. @makedansure @Mark6pro @KidMoe .

Well, this whole boxing project thing is not something I yet make margin profit of, it is not what I feed my family or live from. It basically pays off the expenses as of now, but eBay have been one of the main selling channels. Anyway, my eBay account isn't that big deal, may have about 30~ transactions along 2 years ago that I created it. Which still, I wouldn't like to loose.

In other words, I mainly do this because I love boxing, having my room full of different boxing gear and raising these Mexican brands to the outside world of Mexico.

My worry on this topic is more on trying to understand if I'm really going against their patent - which I wouldn't like doing - or they may just be trying to apply their power. I'm not offering replicas or fake Grant gloves, what I'm offering is other Mexican workshop brands with variated colors designs, where some have the 3 stripes.

Appreciate Grant gloves patent may include specific requirements on the whole making of glove and not only its triple colors design. What doesn't make sense to me, is that other Mexican gloves made by other workshops as they've always been done in their own style, should not be allowed to produce/ commercialize triple stripe thumb/ cuff colors design.

Thanks,
Edgar
Click to expand...
I am not a lawyer, but I do/have run small businesses and have seen similar situations to yours, which were nothing more than fishing exercises by businesses to scare off smaller competitors.

If Grant genuinely has a patent that prevents you from selling said products they would have no problem providing you with a copy.

Imo, the best course of action would be to pay a lawyer to write a formal notarised letter requesting a copy of said patent and informing Grant that you are a small vendor and you feel that they have acted in a threatening manner towards your business, and that if they continue to contact you without providing proof of patent you will consider this as targeted harassment and send them a cease and desist letter.

It seems like they are just bullies who are bluffing.
 
Edgar Martinez said:
Hey guys

Appreciate the time and effort on you all going through this and sharing your thoughts. Always helpful to hear different perspectives. @makedansure @Mark6pro @KidMoe .

Well, this whole boxing project thing is not something I yet make margin profit of, it is not what I feed my family or live from. It basically pays off the expenses as of now, but eBay have been one of the main selling channels. Anyway, my eBay account isn't that big deal, may have about 30~ transactions along 2 years ago that I created it. Which still, I wouldn't like to loose.

In other words, I mainly do this because I love boxing, having my room full of different boxing gear and raising these Mexican brands to the outside world of Mexico.

My worry on this topic is more on trying to understand if I'm really going against their patent - which I wouldn't like doing - or they may just be trying to apply their power. I'm not offering replicas or fake Grant gloves, what I'm offering is other Mexican workshop brands with variated colors designs, where some have the 3 stripes.

Appreciate Grant gloves patent may include specific requirements on the whole making of glove and not only its triple colors design. What doesn't make sense to me, is that other Mexican gloves made by other workshops as they've always been done in their own style, should not be allowed to produce/ commercialize triple stripe thumb/ cuff colors design.

Thanks,
Edgar
Click to expand...

It's all in that article I posted. You may unknowingly infringe on a patent even if you each came up with the idea independently, if they patented it and you didn't. They might also patent in one country but not another, so is enforceable only in the countries with the patent.

I think you've been very reasonable by asking what patent is being infringed upon, and open to ceasing your sales once you confirm. At this point for all we know there is no patent, no patent at all, or a patent that doesn't apply to what you are selling. Right now you're being asked to stop "because I told you so", which isn't a good enough reason yet.
 
Mark6pro said:
It's all in that article I posted. You may unknowingly infringe on a patent even if you each came up with the idea independently, if they patented it and you didn't. They might also patent in one country but not another, so is enforceable only in the countries with the patent.

I think you've been very reasonable by asking what patent is being infringed upon, and open to ceasing your sales once you confirm. At this point for all we know there is no patent, no patent at all, or a patent that doesn't apply to what you are selling. Right now you're being asked to stop "because I told you so", which isn't a good enough reason yet.
Click to expand...

Thanks @Blake_UK @Mark6pro . I did read your shared link and also shared from others... just a bit ambiguous what the scope or impact can be.

Reading you guys, does makes me feel like I'm not crazy thinking how I do. There has now been 5+ days without any further response from them, I may list back some of my gloves and will keep you posted if they come back with something or I face any issue on eBay.

Thanks,
Edgar
 
Hopefully I won't derail the thread, but what is the "triple stripe thumb"?
 
I agree with the above poster, it sounds like an empty threat to shut down competition. If they were really concerned about infringement they'd have no issue sharing proof of the patent with you. The fact that they didn't even reply to your messages seems unprofessional and it makes it hard to take them seriously.
 
Foppa21 said:
It's not a actual design feature? Mainly cosmetic?

tbh when people say 3 stripes, I think Adidas
Click to expand...

That's what everyone thinks. I had to look up their gloves to make sure they didn't have 3 stripes on the thumb, and does not look like they do.
 
Grant are famous for the triple thumb they have stated to claim trademark over it on their social media about a year ago but lots of people copy it now
 
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